From Sergeant Major to Civilian: Navigating Identity, Leadership, and Personal Growth with Retired Army Sergeant Major Andy Duch

Speaker 1: 1:02

Today's episode, steve and I got a very special guest. His name is Andy Duke, 25 year, retiree Sergeant Major at the United States Army. He's one of our chapter brothers, rides a lot of miles with us And we're just gonna kind of get ahold of his story and talk about something that Steve and I have touched on before, and that's leadership and NCOs and good ones, bad ones and hear about Andy's journey from a wet nose private all the way up to a Sergeant Major.

Speaker 2: 1:34

Hey Duke, welcome Hey thanks for having me. So I mean we'll just get into it. You've come full circle, right Where you started out in Guernsey County in Ohio. Come back. You live in Guernsey County now. What's the thought process? And I asked this. I'll tell you why after. But what's the thought process of? was that always the goal to come home after serving?

Speaker 3: 2:06

Yes, it was Growing up in the country out in Guernsey County. I grew up hunting, fishing, hanging out with my parents and grandparents, who lived right next to each other, and my goal was to always come back to that property when I got out of the military And I promised my grandfather when he was alive that I would do everything that I could to keep that land in our name for as long as I possibly could There it is yeah, And I asked that because I was the opposite way.

Speaker 2: 2:34

When I left Martin's Ferry over on the Iowa River in 1993, I had no envisions of ever going back And, as I've said on this podcast before, when I had to go back in 2017, it was. It started the spiral of my mental breakdown, I guess, if you will. So that's why I asked that. I mean, we didn't have land, we didn't have 125 acres, we didn't have none of that. We had a corner lot right. So I mean, and so that was the difference, And that's why, when I saw that, I wanted to ask that question. So you're back. So 1998, you enlisted 88.

Speaker 3: 3:39

Or 88, yeah, my bad.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Yeah, 1988 enlisted. You were air defense, correct.

Speaker 3: 3:48

Yeah, you started with the Hawk missile system.

Speaker 2: 3:53

I'm not familiar. How long did that stay around?

Speaker 3: 3:57

Hawk missile transitioned out, i think in the mid to late 90s, into the Avenger missile system. Oh okay, but it was a big transition because the Hawk missile system was a line unit, was big and the missiles were huge, so they're like 11 foot long and they weigh like 2,200 pound a piece and there's three per launcher.

Speaker 2: 4:24

What was the platform it was fired from?

Speaker 3: 4:29

It was a portable launcher base, so it looked like a box with a three arms on it that held these missiles and it could slew 360 degrees.

Speaker 2: 4:39

Okay.

Speaker 3: 4:39

And it was pretty badass When that missile left the launcher. It left it mocked too. Oh, that's getting it, Yeah, But I mean I only got to live fire those at white sands. Obviously we'd never had any issues or we had to use them anywhere else. But when Desert Shield and Desert Storm occurred, the Patriot missile was what was used to hit the scuds. They didn't use the Hawk and that's kind of what caused the Hawk to fade.

Speaker 2: 5:05

Okay, and now the Patriots have been deployed and sent to other countries. you know Ukraine being the newest Patriot missile battery recipients, i guess. So yeah, i get that. I'm familiar with the like the Q 36, 37 radar system that you.

Speaker 3: 5:36

We had our radar system. We had three different radars that we utilized. They had the pulsating acquisition radar, which is like what you see at the airports the big thing.

Speaker 3: 5:46

And then we had a continuous wave radar, which looked like a 55 gallon drum that had been cut in half and had a radar in the upper and lower portion of it. And then we had what they called the high power radar, which was like a Mickey Mouse ear looking radar, And that was the one that would shoot the RF beam to lock onto a target. So you know, if an aircraft was coming in, you could lock onto something as small as a paw privet on that aircraft And it couldn't break it. So it was pretty awesome.

Speaker 1: 6:15

It was pretty neat, especially being in the 80s, and like that was like that's the type of technology that people could think of now, and the fact that it happened 30 years ago is pretty sweet.

Speaker 2: 6:30

Right, i mean it's, and you know it was in that time. How long was the Hawk system around?

Speaker 3: 6:38

I mean I think it was developed like in the 60s. Raytheon developed it in the 60s And I think we were gonna use it, you know, for the Cold War Right, but you know it never seen much action.

Speaker 2: 6:56

And so and the Avenger system was similar.

Speaker 3: 7:01

It's much smaller. The Avenger system is just a Stinger missile but it's mounted in a Polar on a Humvee.

Speaker 2: 7:08

Right the four.

Speaker 3: 7:09

Yep, and then it's got a 50 cal underneath the one.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Yeah, it looked like those things that Arnold Schwarzenegger used in Commando.

Speaker 1: 7:17

Them two square boxes he had.

Speaker 2: 7:20

Yeah, okay, i'm tracking. Yeah, i'm tracking the Avenger? Yeah Cool, So was the goal to make SR Major. I mean, was that your?

Speaker 3: 7:33

My goal was just to make a career of the military. Okay, making SR Major was not something that I really aspire to until I'm 87. Once I'm 87, i thought you know what? I've been here long enough. I've done my time, i've taken care of soldiers. Now I wanna be in a position where I can affect change. Right Was what I thought.

Speaker 2: 8:01

But you make.

Speaker 3: 8:01

SR Major, and it doesn't really matter, you still have some officer that does what the hell they wanna do anyway.

Speaker 2: 8:09

Right And you know I was like My goal when I joined was to be a first SR Major. That was my goal. That was when I met first SR Major in Heinz in basic training. I'm like I wanna be that fucking guy, right, i mean it just And like drill sergeants are in your face and they do their job. They make you feel like shit and all that stuff. But first SR Heinz was like different And like when you see the drill sergeants' faces change when he walks in the room, you're like the drill sergeants are like the baddest dudes in basic training. But when first SR Heinz walked in and their faces changed, you're like hmm, there's something different about this guy. But the whole drill sergeant thing never got to me. You know what I mean? It was never. I never took it personal. They called me meathead, which.

Speaker 2: 9:26

I use that term now to describe an abundance of different things, Right but you know I was bigger than all my drill sergeants, so drill sergeant Johnson was five foot six maybe And he tried you know what I mean Like he tried to intimidate you. You know I didn't join for that. I knew joining that that was part of the process, right? so I didn't need someone yelling at me telling me I'm fucked up Again. I've always been pretty good of doing a self-assessment, knowing exactly when I'm fucked up, and I had a football coach in high school which I mean he beat himself up at halftime, i mean punched himself in the fucking face at halftime.

Speaker 2: 10:32

Yeah, so nothing in basic training surprised me or fucking scared me at all.

Speaker 1: 10:45

But see, that was me too. Dad gave me like. dad told me the goal when I went to basic was don't volunteer for shit, stay in the middle of the formation. Your whole goal is to get through there and then not know who you are. So at the end of basic we had to go into our TI, you know, because Air Force we do things a little bit different. We had to go into his office and you know report and all that stuff. And I came into his office and stood to position of attention that he put me at ease. He looks at me and he goes you're in my fucking flight. I'm like mission accomplished, mission, fucking accomplished.

Speaker 2: 11:24

Yeah, i mean it's, yeah, but first on, i mean, so that was my goal through most of. But then you know you get into the regular army and you kind of put it on the back burner. You know what I mean, you, but I was always. I was always that guy that I did, but I did the right thing because it was the right thing to do, type of thing, and you know I made the conscious decision. Now that I'm in the military, all that knucklehead shit would you know go by the wayside, except for when I was in Korea, i mean, but everybody acts like a fucking idiot in Korea.

Speaker 1: 12:14

So I think, i think when you land in Korea you know especially like dad was there in your early 80s. You get off the plane, you hand them your common sense And they hand you a certificate Like you are authorized to be a fucking dumb ass for the next year.

Speaker 2: 12:30

And I think the worst thing it was a double edged sword, like the worst thing and best thing that happened to me. My first duty station was Korea, right? So you know your leadership didn't go home. Your leadership was on the same camp as you were. You know you drank beer with baton sarns and squad leaders and all that stuff. And you know my first, first sarn, first sarn stricklin wasn't first sarnhines And I'm like huh, you know what I mean. Like huh, like motherfuckers out here getting fucked up, right, like you know. And then first sarn stricklin. I mean, to his credit, i never came down on the blotter report my whole year in Korea, which is mission accomplished, cause I fucking tried. But first sarn stricklin. I was part of his safety brief, like hey, if you see Vickers down, if you see Vickers downrange, keep an eye on him, you know. So.

Speaker 1: 13:40

I think. But I think being in a situation like that it helps you understand the lines between drinking beer the night before with the first sarnhine And then the next day in formation. That's the first sarnhine. It's not the guy I was drinking beer with last night, Exactly. Yeah, It helps you learn those lines And I think it helps NCOs figure out those lines for when they get back. Yeah, You guys call it in Garrison or whatever, but yeah, Well, i was never.

Speaker 2: 14:15

You know, i hung out like one of my good friends in 93, 94 in Korea was my squad leader. That's not supposed to happen, right, like at all. And then one of the biggest fucking shit stirs was the fucking corporal right At the time. He was like eight years time in service or whatever, a fucking corporal. And I mean he, he was the most mischievous one of all of us. Like he was always getting us into some kind of shit. That ain't supposed to happen, you know. And so what I took from that is I don't. They were my friends right.

Speaker 2: 15:03

And again, monday morning, if Sarin Thompson told me to go fucking do something, i went and did it. But yeah, like I was never that squad leader, i was never that team leader. I was you know what I mean Like never hung out with Joe ever, because come Monday morning there will be no doubt who the fuck's in charge, no doubt, yeah. So again, a double edge sword. You know when I used to tell Thompson I'm the dumb ass private, i can't be the voice of fucking reason here, you know, like you're supposed to tell me, hey, don't fucking do that stupid, not the other way around. You know what I mean, and more times than not you know I did a lot of stupid shit, but more times than not, it's me looking at Ferguson, corporate Ferguson or Sarin Thompson and a bit like, hey, bro, we can't do this dumb shit. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 16:08

And so, yeah, so Well, you get some Joes that never grow up. You know you got some people that don't have that in them to do what you were talking about. You know some people are just fucking idiots their whole life and they make it through the ranks that way. And you know, you get little Joes watching Big Joe and they're like is that the way I'm supposed to be doing it?

Speaker 2: 16:29

And that's where fuck up, move up, that's where it derived from right.

Speaker 3: 16:33

Yeah, they usually go to OCS.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Right, but that's, i mean that's where it derives from. And you know, i didn't ever want my guys to ever lose respect for me in that way And I was like I'm not granted. Once I got back to the States, i was a homebody. I stayed at home with mama all day and I didn't go out drinking and doing dumb shit. And I ended up only doing dumb shit when I went to you know, b knock and A knock and shit like that. So which, again, that's why it's called beer knocking And I mean, no matter your MOS, it's what it's called And that's. But yeah, i mean it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 17:29

It's one of those things where, again, i never wanted Joe to be like he's a hypocrite, you know. I mean like he's telling us not to. You know, don't fuck up on the weekends. And you know I used to tell my guys if you need me, call me. If you don't need me, don't fucking call me, right, you know, because? and I tell him I don't want to be in your off life. But if you make me in your off life, i'm coming in with both feet Like you don't once. Once you allow me into your off time, it's hard to get me out of your off time. You know what I mean. Right, if I have to come get you from a fucking police station or any of those shits, you know it's it's hard to get me to fuck out of them now. So, yeah, i mean it's yeah, good times, fucking good times in Korea. Shout out to Camp Castle Korea.

Speaker 1: 18:33

So do you think from those two different perspectives? So I was. I was. I had a clear delineation between who I was when we weren't at the shop and who I was at the shop. And my guys understood that And because I set that example, i didn't really have any issues. But I was also. You know, i was in my 20s, my early 20s as an E5. Most of my airmen were in their early 20s, especially being in Germany. You know you're confined to the base. All the wives are, you know. So I was in their social off life. But they also understood that. You know we may be hanging out tonight, but tomorrow morning that's your ass if you fuck up.

Speaker 1: 19:15

But I think that I always had the capacity to be a good NCO. I just needed to have it molded by good NCOs. So do you think that? where I'm going with this is do you think that everybody can be made into a good NCO, or do you think they're born with the intrinsic traits that just need to be molded? So do you make them? Sorry, you make an NCO regardless. But do you think you can make anybody an NCO or do they need to be born to be an NCO? Does?

Speaker 3: 19:45

that make sense? It does make sense And I my perspective is I think they have to have those born. They have to be born with the certain traits you know to be a good NCO. I mean, like I said before, anybody will make it up the ranks if you do your time and you get your points and all that shit. But there's there's a there's a hard line difference between a good NCO, a good leader, and in a shit bag that just made it through And you can see it like like Steve was talking about before, you can look at somebody and you can tell if they're a shit bag or not. And I think that's just character. You're either a good judge, a character or you're not. And I've been blessed with with being able to judge character pretty well And nine out of 10 times I'm right on the spot.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Yeah, it's, i think you'll have the anomalies. You know. I mean there'll be people out there that you know I got a buddy that if you looked at him when he was a young soldier, you're like all right, when you're in a list, miss up, go ahead and drop fries at McDonald's. You know what I mean And I'm sure he would tell you this. You know what I mean. Like and And he had a conflict with the leadership, and you know.

Speaker 2: 21:08

But then a switch, you know, like maybe maybe his leadership qualities were dormant, You know what I mean. But you know a switch went off and and he found his niche. He found, you know, let me go to Ranger school, let me go to supper school, let me be a supper instructor. You know what I mean. He found, he found his niche and which allowed him to to progress through the ranks and make major and you know, and have a successful career. You know what I mean, and so I think it's. It's one of those things where you know we all again, we, we've all seen people were like how in the fuck, right? You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 21:57

I've seen you know who do you have naked pictures of? with a goat Right.

Speaker 2: 22:02

Right, like how in the fuck? Um, but you know they, you have, you have leaders that were book smart. You had leaders that could could apply anything in the field. They couldn't apply anything, you know, then the army, army kind of morphed to wanting both. You know, like I was never the book smart, the book smart guy, you know. You know, yeah, maxed out on correspondence courses, but who the fuck didn't, right, i mean, there's always I was smart enough to figure out the ways around correspondence courses, right.

Speaker 2: 22:46

So I mean those kind of things where you know back, when you know military education kind of had more weight than civilian education, right, and and I'm like, well, i'm in the military, so everything I do to better myself will will focus around the military. And, and you know, part of my problem in my career, i didn't evolve. I didn't evolve enough for the army, i didn't evolve enough for myself. I was a pretty good This is just me saying this. No one ever told me that I was a pretty good combat leader And and that's why, you know, going back to Iraq as many times as I did felt like home and it felt like this is exactly why I joined the army. This is exactly where I need to be. And this is exactly me and my, my, my sweet spot. You know this, this is my, my, my groove, and, and you had, that's where you separate leaders. Right In combat is where you sit, like you know, in O five, when I was in charge of my first patrol, and you know O five, we didn't, we had trip tickets but we didn't have designated routes.

Speaker 2: 24:26

You know, you, you, it was me, e six on the fly Hey, we're going to. You know, we're going down here to the gold lady, we're going to turn right, we're going to go through the. You know, hit, hit along the canal and up through the cemetery, and you know that's how we're going today. And everybody knew that. You know what I mean. And but on the fly, you know, you come over to radio, is like, hey, we're going to bang a right here. And then we bang a right.

Speaker 2: 24:54

And there's days where you make that as a leader. You made that on on the fly. Call Hey, it was bang a right here in. An ID goes off Right. So you know before that it may have taken in days or weeks or months or never to validate your order. You've been given to your Joe's right There, it's instant. You made the call turn right. Shit, shit went bad Right Now. Thankfully, no one died, no one got hurt. You know this, that and the other, but you made that. It was always up up front in your mind. Like every decision you make has has a fucking consequence right now, and and I enjoyed it I enjoyed that pressure. I, you know like I not enjoy, i embraced.

Speaker 1: 25:57

I embraced you, thrive.

Speaker 2: 25:58

Right, I embraced that pressure, right Like I. I felt that again, this, this was what I was meant to do in the in the late nineties and the early 2000s.

Speaker 1: 26:11

You guys will laugh at this because you know the other branches see that as it all the time. But the Air Force was transitioning to what I call the whole person touchy feely concept. You spend your duty day in college classes or volunteering downtown to be able to be promoted. And I was of the mindset you know, very old school upbringing. My dad was, you know, army early 80s My grandfather was in for like shit through the late 40s and 50s and early 60s. You enlisted to do a mission And that's what your whole focus was Like. Even my family life suffered because you know I wasn't issued my wife and kids. They took a backseat to the mission because that's what I raised my right hand to do. And that mindset, um, i had.

Speaker 1: 27:00

I was at E four, my first duty station, and I had East sevens telling me dude, you're already a dinosaur. Like I couldn't evolve, like Steve was saying I couldn't evolve into that whole person touchy feely concept. I had an E seven come on night shift with me and he rode for a night and he goes why aren't you in an NCO? And I said, because I don't look good on paper, i know my job better than most. I'm really good at what I do. I take care of my guys. I don't look good on paper and you don't nobody promotes early if they don't look good on paper Right, and that was my whole career.

Speaker 1: 28:07

I didn't look good on paper, but if you wanted somebody to get something done, you ask me I'm a fucker going to get done. I mean, i was always available, i was always there, but I just I wasn't the guy that looked good on paper, which is why when I got out at nine years, i was still at E five And you know it. Just, i didn't promote fast because I didn't look good on paper, which I was okay with. Making rank was never my goal. I wanted to make a career out of it. But when I've said before, when I enlisted, i had an old chief mass sergeant tell me, when it stops being a way of life and it starts being a nine to five, it's time to look elsewhere. And I hit that brick wall at eight and a half years. So I just, but my whole goal was to just do my mission, um, fulfill my oath and take care of my guys. I did that. Fuck it. It was a successful day for me, yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:56

I mean, you know, i tell you my goal was to be a first on, like I said, and once, once you're in it, once you start doing it, you know I made rank relatively.

Speaker 2: 29:12

you know, i made E five within three years, you know, relatively quickly, you know. and uh, i was a team leader as a E four And uh, my squad leader at the time didn't treat me, you know, as a team leader, right, he treated me like an E four. And uh, and I always, like you know, it was one of those things where, when, when you had to go up to the, the, the company, for whatever, when, when it's, you know, uh, all, the, all, the enlisted, all the E four and below, i had to go to that, and then they would have leader meetings but I couldn't go to that And then they'd put out something in the leader meeting And then you know which I was unaware of. then you know, why ain't you doing this? I don't like we put it out in the leader meeting. I wasn't part of that, you know. so I'm like, okay, let me, let me buckle down and go ahead and get promoted.

Speaker 2: 30:22

You know, well, what makes you a corporal? No, the fuck you want Again, from my experience with corporal Ferguson great fucking guy. Great fucking guy. Bad fucking corporate. You know what I mean. Bad fucking corporate.

Speaker 1: 30:39

So Trevor's a specialist in the national guard And I tell everybody all the time that boy couldn't be my, i couldn't be his NCO. He is he. He takes fucking shaming to, he, he is truly E four mafia. Shaming like there's no tomorrow, um and but hearing stories and stuff, i think it must be universal that the E, the specialist in below, cannot stand corporals in any way, shape or form, like. There's never a good thing said about corporals that I've ever heard anybody say Like it's, it's, it's just. I I not having experienced that, because when I joined the air force, you know we used to have, um, you had a senior airman and then you had a buck sergeant which was like the air forces version of a corporal. That was phased out before I enlisted. So it was just E four, e five. We didn't have anything. E four, fire and a half ish, you know. So I didn't have that experience. But you know, hearing you guys talk about it and other guys talk about it, like but it's, it's the.

Speaker 2: 31:51

The funny thing is corporal is a? um combined pay grade, right corporal and specialist in the army, same first arm master, sergeant, same uh. So our major commands are major, same that. Uh, this stain is only for corporal Right, i mean that's it, that's right It's, i don't know if it's.

Speaker 1: 32:21

I don't know if it's because the, the corporal rank has gotten that, um, that fucking stigma of being the ass kisser. It's, it's a you know what.

Speaker 2: 32:34

I mean.

Speaker 1: 32:34

Cause I like I've heard that a lot like they're the ass kisser or they're the. They're the fuckups that you don't want to promote, but they've been in so long you got to do something with them.

Speaker 2: 32:46

You know. You know why it's a horrible rank? Because when you need an NCO to do something, that fucking guy's doing it. Right, yeah, um, he's fucking doing it. Like every every bullshit fucking. Um, goddamn area, beautification detail, that motherfucker's on it. You know what I mean. And nobody, nobody, wants to be that fucking guy. You know what I mean And, and my approach was I don't want to be a half NCO, right, right, i was never.

Speaker 2: 33:17

You know, in in the army, we have this thing called um, you know, um, fucking. You know, uh, sitting, you know acting, acting first sergeant acting, but two Sergeant acting fucking, whatever. You know what I mean. I was never. I was never a, uh, i was never an acting anything. Once, once, someone says you're a team leader, i was a fucking team leader And that that was my mentality.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Um, because acting is such is doing me a disservice, and my guys, um and uh, you know when I, when I was in a position that wasn't supposed to be long, and they're like, hey, we're just, we're going to put you in here and you feel it, and and I'm like, okay, and first, you know, first day, I'm like, hey, listen, um, i may only be here two weeks. However, in the next two weeks we're going to do shit my fucking way And if you don't fucking like it, you know we can come close the door. You know what I mean. Um, but yeah, so um, yeah, i don't.

Speaker 2: 34:30

I never liked acting uh, air quotes, you know what I mean. That makes no fucking sense to me. I don't think anybody did Right And and a lot of them corporals. That that was the. You know air quotes, acting Um. Because, again, you know, at, at certain points, yeah, uh, cut off scores were fucking outrageous and some MOS's and you know low density MOS's were even worse and things of that nature. But you know, at some point you either have to fucking figure out a you know you're going to be a lifelong corporal or you need to go do something else reclass the. You know um.

Speaker 3: 35:17

I've had that exact counseling session with numerous soldiers throughout my career. I'm like look guy, what is it that you want, right? I mean, do you want to be an E5 the rest of your life or do you want to move up? If you want to move up, then I recommend you start doing things like correspondence courses and, you know, doing better on your PT test and you know all the things that that you need to get. and if they don't, then that's fine. You know, i'm not going to waste my time on you.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Right, exactly, and, and I as well, you know when you have to come up and are you, are you attend, are you uh promote or are you uh able to reenlist, or you know um, and things of that nature, and you're like Hey, listen, man, like you have those people that you say you're a good soldier, go work in pack, you're a good soldier, go Don't. Don't try to be a combat armed soldier when you're not. You know what I mean Know your role.

Speaker 2: 36:19

No, you don't mean like I get, i understand, i understand. When you went to meps, this was the only thing you had a 97 GT score. This is the only thing you can get. I get it Fucking go. God damn the BSEP. Get right. And you're a good soldier. Army needs good soldiers, right. And then there's those. Hey, bro, you're fucking ETS day, can't get here soon enough, right. And uh, yeah, i want to. I want to reclass, i want a bonus note of fuck, yeah, that's what you want to do, but I, i can't have good faith. Allow the United States army to fucking realist, you, right? So, yeah, i mean, there's a lot, a lot of those. So so the military, um, family lineage, right.

Speaker 3: 37:13

Yeah, grandparent, both, both of my grandfathers were in the military uh, army Air Corps on my dad's side and Navy on my mom's side. And then my dad was in Vietnam and, uh, he made E five and, and you know, got out when. When he got back And um, you know, so I always wanted to, that's what I wanted to do. I never had any aspirations going to college or anything like that. I wanted I want to be in the military. Um, and my dad gave me the same speech that you got, you know, basic training, keep your mouth shut, don't tear for shit. You know lay low, roger, that Get the basic training and your name spelled D, u, c, h. You don't get to lay too low because when mail comes and somebody looks at the letter and they're like private, uh, douche.

Speaker 2: 37:58

I'm like please let somebody step out of ranks and say here But yeah, i couldn't lay low Right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:08

I mean, i get it And uh, so, and I, i like, again, i like to ask these questions because, um, i had a grandfather I didn't know um what war to. I didn't know him, um, and um, my other grandfather, he was a coal miner and a um for his whole adult life, and uh, my dad was a steel worker And uh, so you know, i didn't have the lineage I didn't have um, you know, some people have pressure to join the military, some people, you know, I didn't have that My, my mom's first husband, he died in Vietnam in 1970, about four months after my sister was born, and uh, i think I was, you know, five, six, seven years old when I found the folded flag and, uh, his bronze star and purple heart, and and, uh, then you have to. You know, being an inquisitive kid, you have to ask questions and and uh, like it never dawned on me until that point, like me and my sister had different last names And I mean, like it, it was like not a thing, right, like I never thought that we had different dads because my dad was always her dad, you know, um, he, um, him and my mom got together when my sister was, uh, one and a half one, uh or so, and uh got married when she was two Um, so her whole life she's only known one dad, right, um. But it weighed heavily on me as I had grown, uh, to know that, you know, when we talk about sacrifice and the ultimate sacrifice, that there there was a man who paid the ultimate sacrifice and my existence is solely based off of that sacrifice, like I.

Speaker 2: 40:16

I made that, you know, i connected those dots early and I was like holy shit. And so, all throughout, you know, all throughout high school, there was no, um, there was no other goal for me than to be in a military. And again, um, i had, you know, i had offers, the the, you know, wrestle in college and play football in college, and uh, but I always wanted to join the military, but I knew what it would do to my mom and I knew, you know, i was going against her wishes because you know she damn near didn't wanna lose a husband and a son and-.

Speaker 3: 41:05

Got that.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Right, yeah, so, but you know you have to do what you think you have to do, right. So that was the other reason why, when I joined the army I'm not washing out, i'm not, this ain't gonna be the you know I felt like I had a debt owed And so that's kind of the chip I carried with me throughout my career a debt owed And yeah. But then you know, once I rat kicked off, or once 9-11 kicked off, my mom is like hey, like are you getting out of the army? Like nah, i'm not getting Negative ghost right.

Speaker 2: 41:58

No, like you know, like hell, in 99, i was home for my dad's mother, my grandmother's funeral, and that's when Kosovo kicked off And I was on orders to go to Fort Raleigh. I re-enlisted to go to Fort Raleigh because I didn't know any better. I didn't know anything about Fort Raleigh and the army threw a bonus at me and I was all about it. But yeah, i mean, i was at home, in arms reach of my mother, and a buddy of mine calls and says hey, have you been watching the news? Yeah, you seen what's going on. Yeah, you wanna go? Yeah, he's like well, you better get back here. I said okay. And so I told everybody, hey, i'm leaving. And they're like oh, you were supposed to be here a week or whatever it was, and I'm like something came up, i have to, you know, and went home.

Speaker 2: 43:07

We didn't end up going to Kosovo, we ended up going to Kuwait and they sent the unit that was in Kuwait, the Kosovo, because you know, they were best trained at the time. But we ended up spending four months in Kosovo in 99. But you know, but it was one of those things where, again, i'm a combat engineer that haven't been to combat and this was an opportunity to go, so both grandfathers dad was in Vietnam.

Speaker 1: 43:41

You said that was always a goal. Did you felt like it was a family duty? a family duty? a family duty because both my grandfathers were in a lot of my uncles were my dad, was my dad raised me to with the mindset that you don't have to make a career out of it, but it's a family duty that you enlist. Like you know, we, our family owes, like you owe this country as part of this family, to carry on that duty, to go and do your part, i guess, is the way I want to put it.

Speaker 3: 44:30

Yeah, I didn't. It wasn't instilled in me like that, not with our family. It was just something that I wanted. You know, I always saw my dad's uniform hanging in the closet, with his stuff on it from Vietnam, and I'm like you know, that's what I want.

Speaker 3: 44:47

I want to do that, i want to be that. And so when I enlisted, the day that I left was the only time I ever seen my dad get with a tear in his eye. He gave me a hug, gave me the speech, had a tear in his eye. out the door I went, went to the meps, you know, and then off to basic training. But, you know, being able to go and do that and be successful throughout my career made him proud. obviously, you know I'm his son, but it also made me proud to be his son and to have done those things and say, look, dad, you know, this is what I did And I did it because of you.

Speaker 1: 45:29

So my grandfather, my dad's dad, you know, made a long career out of it. He died in 76. I was born in 78. He would be what they would. I mean he is the clinical definition of PTSD. You know what I mean. But you know, back in the late 60s and early 70s, it wasn't that, it was you know all kinds of other things. So he medicated through alcoholism and you know he was abusive and stuff like that. So I didn't know him.

Speaker 1: 45:58

But even though I only spent nine years in the career that I had or the time that I spent in my dad, my grandmother, my uncles, they all told me, you know, out of all the grandkids, your grandfather would be most proud of you because of what you did and how he viewed that, that type of stuff. So like where I never actually had a connection with the man, knowing that what I did would have made him, you know, chest out and stuff like that, that kind of hit like that. And my dad's the same way. My dad gushes over me about certain things like that, especially, you know, with the problems he had in his time in the Army. But yeah, i just it's nice to know, like you said, yeah, that you know your dad's proud of you because you're his kid, but he's also proud of the type of career that you had, you know. So that level of understanding is kind of nice.

Speaker 3: 47:04

When I remember when I made E6, the first sergeant that I had he was kind of the guy that groomed me like his name was Jacobson, first sergeant Howard Jacobson awesome guy. He was a former Marine, transitioned to the Army, but he was one of those guys that taught me, you know, how to read people, you know. And he took me under his wing and he was like, look, this is what I want you, this is the path I want for you if you're going to make it and you're going to be successful. But anyway, when I got promoted to E6, they had got ahold of my wife, who in turn got ahold of my dad, and my dad was there to pin me. That day and it was probably one of the best feelings that I ever had in my whole military career was my dad put that rocker on me. You know, it was an awesome day.

Speaker 2: 47:57

That's awesome yeah, and my dad dropped me off at the MEP station as well. Well, he dropped me off at the recruiting station over in Wheeling to go to MEPs. And you know he's a guy of few words, right. I mean he don't say a lot, has never said he was proud of me, but I know he is. He's one of those guys, right. So you know, we're not a loving, openly outward loving family, but I know they love me kind of thing, you know. And I say that you know because my dad, everywhere the fuck we go, my dad will tell hey my son was in the Army 20 years you know, So he's proud of me.

Speaker 2: 48:54

You know what I mean. Like he don't convey it to me personally, which is fine, because you know we're not built for that. Hard shit me and my dad, but yeah, i mean, i get it.

Speaker 1: 49:09

The fact that he gushes over your service. Just let you know the fact that he's even voicing that. Let you know just how important and special that is to him.

Speaker 2: 49:19

Yeah, because I'll be like, hey, dad, this guy don't give a fuck. You know we were at the Pirates game. he's like, hey, you know my son, 20 years in the military, oh, thank you for your service. I appreciate that He don't give a fuck. Oh, no, i'm like no, no, no, i get it. I mean I get it, you give a fuck, but in a sense that you don't give a fuck as much as he gives a fuck. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 49:46

Oh yeah, he's like, you know it's good, your dad's proud of you. I'm like I get that, but you know it don't need it, don't need to be that type of thing. I'm not, you know. But, yeah, my dad, but I think it's still. He grew up in a time when Vietnam was going on. You know he didn't serve, but you know, in all in all accounts he was. He was one of the toughest dudes I've ever met, you know. So I don't think he would have been bad at serving, you know. But I just think, you know it wasn't in the cards And that's also why I'm not a hypocrite when it comes to support members. You know, in our organization I don't look down at them. I don't, you know, i don't snub my nose and say I'm better than you because you know you, as long as you know you had enough intestinal fortitude to raise your hand and volunteer and say this is what I want to do.

Speaker 1: 51:03

If the army didn't send you or your service didn't send you, that's not your fault, per se, you were there but you know you, you were willing and able and there they just chose not to cash it. It was the way out again. You know. So, and that's a struggle I have with my dad. You know he was in from 80 to 84, never went to combat, got himself in some trouble. You know this was when the time the army was cracking down on drugs and alcohol. 13 days left for his ETS, he got kicked out for third drug rehab failure and and he told him I'm, i'm, i'm ETS and I'm not staying in. And they went, captain wanted to make an example out of him and example he was made. So so he's very, he's not ashamed that he served, he's very ashamed of how he served. I guess is the way I want to put that.

Speaker 1: 52:00

And and you you've had that conversation.

Speaker 2: 52:03

You get that, though, right, i mean it's, it's especially now, i would say, especially now that he's around all of us a lot. You know what I mean. And be like man, man, you know, and it's, it's always what could have been right. And, and you know, i had a wrestling coach, um, he used to say all the time he's like, don't be the guy sitting up at Dutch Henry's. There's a bar in Martin's, very, not there anymore, burped down. I hope they got the insurance money, but, um, um, but you know, don't be the guy up in Dutch Henry's saying I could have been the best, whatever, uh, 20 years from now, because when you walked into Dutch Henry's, every dude in there was a. I could have been, i should have been.

Speaker 2: 52:52

You know, uh, this person held me back. Or this person, you know, did that, this, that and the other to me. Don't be a victim, right, um? and he, you know, he coined that long before. You know that that was back in the 80s. He coined that shit, Don't be a victim. And and don't what, if, what, if? we'll eat you up more than anything.

Speaker 1: 53:13

And and I think that's something that dad's come to terms with is that you know it was his fuck up. You know he, he was a good soldier, he just liked to party and you know that it was at that time where, you know, partying was being phased out. And you know he, he was a fucking idiot. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:32

And and uh, but you know, but they, they, as we all do they have their own perception, right Of what their, their career was. And uh, you know I've said it many times I don't, i don't have the best when I, when I look at my career overall, i'm like you know, i didn't achieve what I I set out to achieve. So the fact, though, that's a failure. right Now, others, others, you know, uh, you know others try to tell me differently. You ain't going to tell me differently. You know what I mean. Like we're not going to tell your dad, we're not going to tell Link, you know differently. you know Link's like man. I, you know, i wish, you know, i wish I was a full member or things of that nature, And I'm like, well, you, but he also, he also acknowledges I don't want to be fucked up, like you. He also acknowledges that he's like you know, yeah, i didn't serve in combat, but I'm not fucked up, like you.

Speaker 1: 54:36

So how do you view your, your career Like? do you like we've? we had um in our self-sabotage episode we talked about how we don't view our service in the same light that other people. do you know? like you know, we're not ashamed of the fact that we served, but not proud of certain, the way certain things went about and stuff like that, or our views of ourself And so like. if you know Andy now when he looks back at Andy the private, to Andy the sergeant major in retirement, how do you view your service Like is it? is it something that you know? is there any like um regrets, things that you wish you know, like major milestones that you wish you would have done differently? you know things that you're not happy with, or you know what I mean Like Yeah.

Speaker 3: 55:34

I mean sure, um, there are certain parts of my career that I wish that, uh, you know, i'd I'd done things a little different, i'd had uh took more time with some certain soldiers to get them in the right, in the right direction. Um, you know, there for a while, and I don't know if this happens to everybody, but you know, when you get up to like E seven, e eight, um soldiers look at you different. They, they, they treat you different and you're not like one of the Joe's anymore, like you're. You're, you're not associated with them as like you were when using E six. You know you were with your Joe's, you train with them, you did everything with them. Um, but when you you get up in rank, it changes.

Speaker 3: 56:21

And then when you, when I made sort of major well now you know, all I did was counsel people, or all I did was I would I would go visit my people every day. I would go from shop to shop to shop. How you doing? What do you need? Is there anything I can do for you? I mean, other than the other shit that I had to do. That was my main, main focus every morning. I wanted to make my Joe's know Hey, i'm here for you. You know, if you've got an officer, that's up your ass, they don't need to be up your ass. That's my job, you know. So you know that part of it was different.

Speaker 3: 56:55

Um, i always thought when you like I said earlier when we first started this when you make certain major, then you can, you're the guy that can make shit happen, you can make the changes that need to be made that you've seen fucked up through your whole career. You know, when I make certain major, you know I'm going to make this better, but you find out when you get there you can't. I mean, there's certain things that you can influence and change, but then there's things that you're never going to be able to change because it becomes so political And that that was so discouraging to me. You know, i fought so hard to get there And then I got there and it wasn't what I thought it was going to be, you know, and then it got to be like you said earlier, like you're you're one of your people told you, if it becomes a nine to five, then it's time to do something else.

Speaker 3: 57:45

And you know, and that's where I got. I got to where, you know, this isn't fun anymore. Um, it's time for me to go. You know, 25 years is a good run.

Speaker 1: 57:54

It, it, it wasn't like for the longest time it was, it was I wasn't, i didn't get up in the morning and go to work. I was, i was living a life, 24, seven, and then it might eight and a half year mark It was. I woke up one day and I'm like I fucking go to work. And then it was like, oh shit, i'm going to work, you know like, and it just it wasn't there anymore. And and you know, being raised the way I was and the type of NCO I was, if I wasn't in it it all the way, then it wasn't worth being in it because there was an oath that I took that was very important to me. So and I had long talks with the wife and my dad and my E seven, my Sergeant, john Daley fucking amazing guy, probably the best E seven and a supervisor I had my whole career Um, we spent a lot of time talking and he tried like hell I give the man credit He tried like hell to keep me in Um, but I just my mind was made up and I was done.

Speaker 1: 58:57

But when you come out of the shop there in Utah and you round the corner at hill at the north gate, there's this massive, giant, massive base flag. You know, you've seen him at all the gates. Every time I'd make that curve, i'd see that flag. I think I'm quitting, i'm a quitter, i'm failing my guys, i'm leaving them. And so for every day, for six weeks, man, i'd make that curve and I, every day, i'd be like am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? And I just had to keep telling myself, man, yeah, that's, it's, it's not. And you know, there's days I look back and I would have retired, i would have hit my 20 years in 2017. And sometimes I wish I would have stayed in, but I knew it, that I know now. At the time It was the right decision for me, because I couldn't have been the type of NCO that I Envisioned myself being. If I would have stayed in, i had to turn into one of those shit bags And I just that wasn't me.

Speaker 3: 59:52

Yeah, i remember when I was in Afghanistan and we was with an omelet, you know operational mentor liaison team, so we trained a and a and took them up north, um, but I was.

Speaker 3: 1:00:01

Now I know what that stands for I wasn't. I was an E9, right. So I had a E5 That was supposed to be my gunner in my truck and I had the commander with me, cuz you know, commander and Sergeant major, you know we're buddies. But I could see that he was scared and I Pulled him off to the side. I'm like, hey, man, are you gonna be okay up there? I mean, you got, we're the ones that you gotta make sure stays Okay. He's like, sorry, major, i don't think I can do it. I'm like, do you know how to drive one of these motherfuckers? He's like, yeah, i said you drive all gun. So I was a gunner for the commander the whole time I was in Afghanistan and all the other my other Joe's they'd be like it's our major, what are you doing up there? I'm like, look man, somebody's got to do this. He's scared and I'm not gonna have somebody up there that's scared. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:00:51

That's yeah, but these that created a relationship with the rest of my guys, that was with me on that team, that I Still have today, like these guys still get a hold of me, like hey, sir, major, you know I got this going on. What's your take? What would you do? You know, and that makes me feel awesome, you know, to still have that Just like with you guys. You know, like it's great that We can talk about things with many similarities and and, and be able to share our stories, not just on this podcast but with each other, and Walk away from a time that we've had together and be like you know what? that's some good shit. You know, i want to do this some more.

Speaker 1: 1:01:39

Yeah, yeah. If I was, if I was a fucking lower enlisted guy and I seen my sergeant major up in a fucking turret, I'd have been like that. That's the baddest. Motherfucking you not around you know, i mean like because it's just in my brain.

Speaker 1: 1:01:56

I don't think I can envision, you know, your average sergeant major telling the e5 jump in the striver seat. I'll gun this, motherfucker, you know. I mean like that's just, that's mind-boggling to me, right? I don't know. I don't know if it's something that you you saw often or if that was one of those things where you were just like I mean, you're what 28 man team or right, Yeah 28 man group.

Speaker 2: 1:02:18

So I mean it's slim pickings Exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:02:20

I mean it wasn't like there we had like six trucks, so right, everybody had a roll, right. And it wasn't like in there wasn't, anybody was just sitting in a seat not doing shit. You know so either you as a driver or you were man in the Bft yeah, or Or you were gunning right, you know everybody had to do that.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

Yeah, i just I guess, I guess I think a lot of and I may just be assuming, but I think a lot of of individuals in in your position, not with your mindset, but your position would have just been like, well, fucking, suck it up.

Speaker 2: 1:02:54

E5 and Run that gun, you know right.

Speaker 2: 1:02:57

Yeah, i mean, i had you know first sergeants like hey, i'm coming out on your patrol with you and I'm like listen, i don't need a fucking babysitter. No, no, i'm gonna be your, your gunner or nut gunner, but I'm gonna be a rifleman. All right, something happens, i'm holding you to that shit. So when I say fucking ward, move your ass over there, don't. Don't expect the first Sergeant behind you fucking move. You know, i mean, and to his credit went when fucking First Sergeant Ward roving me one day and the IED goes off And I can tell you about 25 IED went off stories because I was called the IED magnet anyways. But When it went off he knew his role and allowed me to maneuver Like I was trained to do so that's a good first sergeant most certainly he was.

Speaker 2: 1:03:52

He was a good first sergeant but I had a soldier, benny Montez, shot out the. Benny Montez, if you're listening, he was with me, he was my gunner The day I got injured. But Benny Montez, he would have panic attacks at NTC and We had a. We had a mishap with some smoke pots from the OCs. We were setting up a, a checkpoint, doing checkpoint operations out at NTC and the OCs set off two smoke pots and it just devoured our whole checkpoint and my, my driver and Gunner and Bradley that I had overwatching, being Good fucking soldiers and not being relieved of their. You know, general order number one, they stayed in that fucking Bradley and that fucking Bradley and smoke just rolled. And When I pulled everybody off, you know, here I am, uh, i think I was a E7. Then, yeah, i was a E7, then I just I, you know, ntc is controlled, right, controlled by the OCs, controlled by every. Every mission is controlled and I'm just like, get the fuck out. You know, i mean, and I brought my whole platoon off that checkpoint And do a head count, i'm missing two. I'm like, all right, stand by, let me go in and get them. I knew exactly where they was. I walk, i walk through the smoke. I opened the back hatch of that fucking Bradley and like, hey, boys, get the fuck out of here. You know they're. I mean, one of the guys had to be medical evac. Um, he, he it, um, he had a disorder that was not And he, he started convulsing, um after that, and so much so that He couldn't stay in the army any longer. Um And uh, you know, we all three of us had smoke inhalation and and all this stuff. So I was, um, i was not out Um, for like the next two iterations, um and uh, montez had. Montez was my gunner and uh, he had panic attacks. And you know, my, my uh, commander was like a uh, i think, i think Montez is unfit for the army. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? He's like, um, he keeps having panic attacks. He's like, well, it's better, we know now.

Speaker 2: 1:06:54

Then, when we get to Iraq, and I'm like there's, there's fucking nothing wrong with Montez, right? so I'm like, all right, no worries, i go back and, like you know, i go back. I'm in the vehicle, montez in the vehicle, stolz in a vehicle, and we're riding and I'm like you know, hey, montez, how you doing Good start. All right, we'll fucking keep right. How you doing. Good start, okay, get done with the mission.

Speaker 2: 1:07:18

After the mission, i'm like, hey, what the fuck? He's like I don't know what it is and I'm like Like I don't know what it is either. He's like sorry, he's like I'm so comfortable with you. He's like I got, i got in somebody else's truck and I was like this is going to the shit in a handbag. He's like I think that's it. I'm like all right, cool, i got it right. So I'm like I go to the commander. I'm like he's good. Like you know now, both times that dude passed out In the fucking turret Damn, passed out from fucking anxiety or whatever. Took him to Iraq. He was my gunner every fucking day when I had, when, when I got injured, he was also in the truck with me. So he was Off 72 hours as I was. So, but every time, um, but when I went on leave, he had a fucking panic attack. You were his security blanket and and my, my squad leader.

Speaker 2: 1:08:25

That I put in charge of the platoon when I was gone. He, you know, sent me an email Everything's good. Montez has another panic attack. I said you put him in operations until I get the fuck back, because We don't need him Having a panic attack and not being on the gun when he needs to be on the gun. I'm like just swap him out, like I'll send first art a fucking email, explain it, swap him out when I get back He'll be fine And it is and you know, it's one of those things where that motherfucker was in a vehicle that got hit with seven Um explosive force penetrators at one time.

Speaker 2: 1:09:10

And uh, you know, he, uh, and he's good. You know what I'm saying. But There was one time He don't show up for pt. It's like what the fuck. So squad leader Where the fuck? montez it? Uh, i don't know, like all right. Well, we need to figure it out. Like you're fucking after pt, go over to his house, figure it out. So he calls me from his house. He's like he's not here. I'm like we'll go over to flu wellans, house them to his fucking thick of thieves. And uh, so he's like fucking flu wellans, don't know, i'm like all right. So I go over to his house And uh, you know, i start looking through the windows and there's fucking 20 fucking tall boys On the fucking coffee table. So I, you know, i kind of I moved the window open and, uh, you know, moved to curtain. I said, montez, if you're fucking in here, i'm coming in. If you fucking shoot me, i'm gonna be pissed off.

Speaker 2: 1:10:12

I don't know where the fuck you're at. But if you're in here And he fucking come out, you know sorry, and I'm here and like get your fucking ass out. I mean, like, what the fuck are you doing? Oh, i'm having a bad time, like fuck, we're all having a goddamn bad time And I mean like goddamn. So you know, in in the um, in the army, right? you know, the definition of uh leadership Is the ability to accomplish uh the mission. Well, the ability to um Um uh will others to accomplish a mission by uh providing purpose, direction and motivation. That I I'm sure I hacked that up, but I'm going off of my memory paraphrasing Yeah, I think you're close enough for government work, right?

Speaker 2: 1:11:05

But um, yeah, um, i think part of my problem is I lost. I lost that, i lost the, um, the leadership aspect of my life, um, and my identity was so, um, so consumed with being a leader, um, and I'm I'm one of those leaders where I had, you know, invisible badges. You know, um, i had the badge of being that guy. I my, my leadership called on when there was hard tasks, you know I mean um, I was that guy.

Speaker 2: 1:11:54

like they don't want to know how it got done, they just need it done or like in iran, when you know um, we had we had a uh Is a patrol ambush. They said, all right, we're gonna run 24 hour um roving patrols. They said you got engineers, you got the first roving patrol, vic. You got the first roving patrol Roger that You know. I mean like It was every, every um Tough, right, quote, unquote tough mission. Every um high visibility mission. Every um No fail mission, every. You know all those um and You know again You, my squad leaders were like what the fuck man? Like hey, um, there's a high likelihood We're gonna get fucked up. Right now. They'd be like, and you said okay to this, like we gotta do something while we're here, right, i mean.

Speaker 2: 1:13:02

Yeah, there's a high likelihood that we're getting fucked up tonight, you know, and that you know it was to a point. They're like it's a high likelihood. We get fucked up every time we leave this goddamn gate, um, and I'll be like, yeah, so, and I think, because I was at um, i was at four betting for so long They're 10 years, unheard of um it. You know, each leader enabled me to be Good at four betting. Right, i was a, i was, i was a great leader at four betting.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

The army, the rest of the army Didn't see it, couldn't see it. Um, uh, but you know, it's one of those things where every, every um, every leader that I had, when a new one came in, they said, hey, something, something goes wrong. Look at Sarvickers. And It was like that when I was in the company, right, it got to the point where, you know, new e7s were getting promoted. They, they, you know the army's downsizing, they're, they're shifting, they have a new company and there's only one fucking e7 with baton start time. I'm in the goddamn company. They're like all right, hey, sorry, we need you to go to fucking brigade, like, and I'm like all right, you know which?

Speaker 2: 1:14:37

I never wanted to be on brigade staff, right, um, because I was like this is not my fucking cup of tea, you know, i mean like um, but I, i quickly became that guy up at brigade. Okay, fuck, go ask our vickers. You know what I mean and I'd ever, i never shunned people to come and ask me. You know what I mean because I took it again as that invisible badge of Well, you want to know the right answer. So you came, the right guy It was, it was that that sort of thing. And uh, which, quickly, you know the army, again, the army revolving like we In in my, in my brigade, we had one true Staff sergeant major right, which Grow it up. We used to have two, you know future, future ops and plants. We had two and then it just became one and then it became an e8 In that position, then it became a star figures. Until that guy gets here, you're fucking it. Okay, um, which again, i'm never acting right, so when, when the command star major says sergeant vickers is a guy, well, fuck, That's all I need. And when I go and talk to You know, uh, other operations, sergeants, or their first sergeants, like I'm, i'm not saying, hey, would you guys please? You know I mean like um.

Speaker 2: 1:16:18

So It wasn't until I got to um Fort Leonardwood at the last two Years of my career, where I was not that guy. I was not Hailed at all. I was actually. It was actually the opposite. As soon as I got there, dudes like you're a fat ass. And I'm like, well, yeah, i'm, i broke my fucking neck So I don't pt like I used to And I'm one of those guys that need to pt All the fucking time to maintain My weight, and when I'm not, you know uh pt and My weight will Fluck your weight. Oh, by the way, i'm still way under Fuck body fat standards, because the army's body fat standards are fucking horrible, right. And uh, hell, i think, i think I'm at fucking like 22% body fat right now on, according to 600-9. So, um, that's how horrible that shit is.

Speaker 2: 1:17:20

Um, because you know, when you have a 22 inch neck in a 40 inch waist, you will not blow tape at all ever, ever so you know, but it was one of those things where, um, my last Like I again like I told you guys with that picture from, uh, biker breifest, like why didn't you all tell me, uh, last year I was this fucking fat right, like, yes, i can see it, right, i, i can see it, but You don't see it. Right, like in the military, yes, i, i could see where My, my, my jack, i need another jacket, i need another. You know what I mean. Like You can see it, but you don't, because everyone around you is not saying a fat ass. You know what I mean. You need to go to the fucking whatever. Um, because they still held me in so high esteem which My, i let myself down.

Speaker 2: 1:18:26

I let them down you know, and, and that's where I used I used my, my neck, as a crutch, um, i used it as a, i used it as an opportunity to take a knee, um, at a time where I never took a knee you know what I mean like um, i never, uh, i thought portally of myself, not others, not others. I, you know, i. I believe there's a very distinct line between being hurt and being injured. If you're fucking injured, fucking Um, help yourself. If you're hurt and rub a little dirt on that, some bitch and keep going. If you can't keep going and you're probably injured and Let's get it fixed, um, but yeah, again, i held myself to a different standard and when, when I couldn't lead the way I was used to That's what sent me I started becoming that hypocrite.

Speaker 2: 1:19:32

I started becoming the, the person That I personally didn't like. And then other people started you know, my family started not liking that person And then, but then you go to Fort Leonardwood and those guys were like we don't fucking like you, fat ass. And I'm like that's cool, I don't want to hang out with. No, you motherfuckers anyways. And And it left me with a horrible taste in my mouth Because I'm getting a dose of that good Counseling that I used to give people right, like, hey, i think it's time for you to go fucking throw throw fries in a grease. And people were giving that to me And I'm like motherfuckers.

Speaker 1: 1:20:25

Like I'm that guy. I'm that guy, right, you don't eat.

Speaker 2: 1:20:28

Yes, me, i'm that like I'm that fuck, i'm break glass in case of war guy, right, no matter if I'm 290 pounds, i will get in a motherfucking M rap right now. I'll be the first dude on the ground at any intersection, you know what I mean. Like I used to get back in my truck and I'd look over at Stope. I'm like, hey, listen, don't tell my wife, i just did that dumb shit, right, because you know, she, she, she would be very upset knowing how close she was with getting 500.

Speaker 2: 1:21:03

Because I didn't fucking die right now But but yeah, i mean, but that's you know. I think that that started my spiral of and it started before I got out. Plus, I'm living in a 20 foot fucking camper. That don't help good mental health And and you're trying to, you know, you're trying to patch fix a marriage from 1300 miles away. That don't work And yeah. So When I got out I'm a BA Franklin County sheriff And then you know my mental health guys like well, you say you have irritability issues. Yeah, you understand inmates. They're. Their goal every day is to fucking irritate the fucking guards.

Speaker 1: 1:21:58

Oh, yeah, fuck them I don't you know like maybe it's not a good, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:22:04

And then he's like oh, and then you just had neck fusion surgery three months ago. Yeah Well, we can't, we can't ensure you. I'm like um, okay, but this is my plan A. He's like well, you might want to plan B Like fuck it, you don't do plan B's man Like I'm a plan A fucking attack guy And so um yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:30

So when you retired, was your identity still wrapped up in Sergeant, major Duke and not Andy, or you know? was that a transition that was a natural flow for you, or you know? were you still, you know, in that mindset, like Steve was like, you know, like I'm that guy, and now that I'm not that guy, what the fuck am.

Speaker 3: 1:22:53

I That's. That's where I was, and it took me a while to cope with. I'm not the Sergeant Major anymore.

Speaker 3: 1:22:59

You know I don't have soldiers anymore. You know, and I can remember, a girl that I dated specifically at that time said to me one day I'm not one of your soldiers and you are not my Sergeant Major, and you know that was like a dagger and I'm like, well, you bitch, why would you say something like that? But she was right And I had a real hard time transition because the Army doesn't have a good. They don't have an SOP or a manual that they hand you when you're walking out the door that says all right, this is what you need to do to transition to be a civilian. You go through the TAP process and you go through Fort Knox for out processing and you're down there for a couple days and you see all these people and they give you a flag and a lapel pen and and they pat you on the back and say, thanks, you're fucking out of here. And then then you're like, okay, you had a plan.

Speaker 1: 1:23:50

A, i didn't have a plan anything.

Speaker 3: 1:23:52

I'm thinking to myself okay, well, i was a fucking Sergeant Major, so this should be easy. No, it's not. So you know what I ended up doing? I worked at fucking Home Depot for like six months and I'm like this isn't for me. You know, these people that I'm working with they don't have what I'm used to. You know, there's no loyalty or pride in their work or mission essential anything with these fuckers. So I was like you know what fuck this? I'm not going to do it. So I was talking to my shrink at the VA and she's like hey, have you ever thought about the vocational rehabilitation program? I'm like what is it? And she told me what it was and I'm like well, so I get to go to college for free. And she's like yeah, maybe you ought to try that. They'll pay you to go to school. I'm like pay me, okay, i'll do it.

Speaker 3: 1:24:40

So I went and got my degree in associate's degree in applied science and learned how to work on air conditioners and furnaces. And then it came time for me to do my first install and my fucking back won't let me do it. So I'm like I can't do that. I can't do this job. So now, what the fuck am I going to do? You know so then ended up not doing anything. You know, i ended up just figuring out how to survive on my military pension and my disability. And now I'm just, i do what I want to do. Now I just, i don't report to anybody, i don't have keys to anything, i just do whatever I want to do, and nine out of 10 times it's with you guys, because that's what I want.

Speaker 1: 1:25:20

There it is. Yeah, it's when and it's funny hearing you guys you know, 22 years, e seven, 25 years, e nine talk about how there's like you're not prepared to transition back. Think about those E fours and E five's that don't even have that structure in their life and the army's like good game, see you on your way. And then those kids you know they know even less about what's available or how to do things and that starts a nasty spiral. So, like I was, i knew I didn't know a lot when I got out and because of the short time that I did, I didn't know. I didn't get to go through taps or anything like that. So when I got out it was clean break. And then I went over to Iraq and I was a contractor for five years with KBR. My whole first year I struggled with looking down and seeing a T shirt and jeans when I drove around Victory Base and not a uniform, because I'd see fucking airmen and privates fucking up And like I, i a couple of times I stopped the truck, put it in park, got ready to get out and choose some ass And I'm like I'm not that guy, i'm not that guy, but I back and drive and it fucking eat at me. And it took a while for me to get to the point where I could be like just you're, just, you're, just Sean, you're not Sergeant neighbor anymore, you're, you're just Sean. And then you just got to figure that out And I struggled from 06, when I got out, till 2000 and 21 to find that home.

Speaker 1: 1:27:03

And I did not find that home. I started to kind of see a peak behind the curtain in September of 21 when I met him up at the 12, 7 event in Willoughby. But it wasn't until the the truck ride in February of 22 to Vermont that I finally realized okay, this, this is where, this is where I'm going to get to be. I'm not Sergeant neighbor anymore, but I'm with people who understand who Sergeant neighbor was and how, how my time as Sergeant neighbor impacts how I see the world, how I interact with the world. And and they don't just look at me I mean I'm an asshole, but they don't look at me as just you're just an asshole. There's reasoning and understanding as to why I do the things that I do and to be with people And that's why you know over 12,000 miles. You know when I hit my funk over the holidays we talked about this just spending that little bit of time at the bowling alley getting to talk to you guys and Sarge, snap me back, and it's because nobody else can give me that. I don't have that home.

Speaker 1: 1:28:20

You know, you came to the chapter at about the same time I joined And I've kind of seen the same thing with like you're and I trajectory in the chapter has been very similar, you know, like fitting in and finding that spot and coming through it, and I kind of see that parallel with you as well in the fact that this chapter is and I think I'm not trying to pat your chest, mr Bromance, but I think that the impact that this chapter has on individuals, with our mindset, can directly be attributed to the fact that the commander of this chapter leads the way he leads 100% And that right there, and he's so fucked up It's that invisible badge that he wears Right.

Speaker 1: 1:29:09

It's that leadership quality that he portrays is whatever that people like you, me, sarge, the guys that were those types of NCOs are like huh, i get this motherfucker, i get this motherfucker because this motherfucker gets me, and we're on that same wavelength And I think that that's why some individuals don't do well in our chapter, because they don't have that type of mentality. You know what I mean? I can't. Even when I was Sergeant Major, i or Sergeant neighbor, i couldn't be Sergeant neighbor at home. I walked through the door and my wife was an E four at the time.

Speaker 1: 1:29:50

She's like look, motherfucker, rank stays outside, so that I had no world outside of being enlisted where I could be who I was, until I got linked up with you guys and you know, being able to find those commonalities and all of that is a, i think, a direct result of how he leads And I know that the chapter was here before he was the commander and the groundwork was set by Bobby and all those guys. But I think that leadership that he's been able to give to everyone has helped push the chapter forward, helped it grow And in February, when he's no longer the commander, the next person's got. They don't have to be like Steve, but they have an expectation that they need to surpass, i guess is the best way to put it.

Speaker 3: 1:30:47

I agree 100%. Yeah, i love, i love what we have. I mean, we're talking about leadership today and you know you're ending on a perfect point, because I was in 12 one for 10 years and never felt one day like I did the first day I met this guy And I'm like you know, there's something about him that's different. There's something about him that makes me want to be here And it's the way he carries himself and it's the way he leads. And when we talked about in the very beginning of this is you know how you can read people and how you know some people have it and some people don't. He's got it And everybody wants to follow it And it's obvious.

Speaker 3: 1:31:28

I mean, look how much time we spend together when we're not doing something specific to the CVMA or just motorcycles. You know we still like that. Like you said at the ball, and I knew that was good for you. I called you and I was like Hey, man, you good And and you were like man, i feel better now. Yeah, i got my battery recharged. I think we all get that way. Yeah. But going back to this guy, it's, it's so refreshing to be amongst men and women that make you feel like you are part of a family, and that's what I love the most about all of this is I feel like I'm part of a family, that that I had lost when I got out of the military Right.

Speaker 2: 1:32:18

And thank you for the flowers. I appreciate it. But I think I think it's important to know it's easy, right, when you don't feel like you're leading. Right, you know, when you you say these nice things, i'm like, well, i haven't really done shit. Right, because I'm just who I am. People accept me. For, you know, i can joke about my flaws with everybody. Right, because, again, i notice them as as well as everyone else.

Speaker 2: 1:32:54

But to be able to be yourself, to be your authentic self and no one judges you to be that person, and you know when, when you, you know, up at that 12, seven event, you're like, hey, man, you know, i really don't like people. I'm like cool, neither do I. Right, you know, but you're, you're the commander of a bunch of people. Yeah, but only half of those motherfuckers show up. But it's again, i'm gonna be who I am regardless. Because when I, when I lost myself before, i hated myself because of that And I'm like I'm not going to lose myself again. So I don't care how many friends I have. When I'm my authentic self, when I'm lying and And I'm doing all these other things and I'm not being my genuine self, i'm ha, i've got fake friends and they don't last, you know. So I don't, the numbers don't really matter. Like you said, you only see these three motherfuckers, That's it. Take over the world. You only need three. You don't need 20 friends, you only need three motherfuckers And that's and that's and that's.

Speaker 2: 1:34:12

You know what I mean. Like it resonates because you know I don't need 20 goddamn. I don't think my life is built to have 20 good friends. There's a reason why there's like eight chairs in this bar. Right, that's strategic, bro. It's strategic. There's fucking eight chairs in this bar.

Speaker 1: 1:34:40

I thought it was just because of all the shelves of whiskey.

Speaker 2: 1:34:42

but you know, i now, now it makes sense You know I mean, but there's always been eight seats in here There's. Before that there was four bar stools and four bar stools, but but for a while, you know we built it and I'm like One person will come over to people. You know what I mean, or whatever. But now that you get eight people in here and it's plenty full and you know it's, it's what it's all about. And when you get to be your authentic self and you're not faking and nobody gives a shit, right, we all been, we all been the combat, we all. You know nothing sets yourself apart. You know what I mean. Just be authentic, be real. The stories you tell you know they got to be 5% true and they have to start with no shit. There we were. You know what I mean And but yeah, i mean it's.

Speaker 2: 1:35:35

It's one of those things where in order for me to evolve, to get to the place I am today, i had to kill Sergeant First Class Vickers, kill him off, and one of one of you know I keep bringing up the buddy that calls me all the time and we talk all the time and he, he's so stuck in the past. Man, we used to be some bad motherfuckers. Yeah, just what. The motherfuckers are dead. I mean I'm like bad. You took 7.62 to the fucking bicep bro, right, that's a bad motherfucker. And you had presence to mind to stay in the moment and help your teammates, help you. That's a bad motherfucker. You're that guy, right, i'm like. But that guy, you know what I mean. He's gone. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:36:32

The world doesn't need that guy anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:36:33

No, And he's been jumping around from job to job to job to job. He's like I can't find what we had. I'm like, bro, you, you ain't going to find that. You know what I mean, You ain't going to find that. Right, I'm like, but you'll, I mean there's things out there that are fucking close. You know what I mean. And, um, but yeah, I mean it's. it's one of those things where, when we met, we met at 12, 6, 12, 6 run, and it's my dad, you know great. And uh, I'm coming over to the chapter, fucking great. And then, um, we met again. uh, Zane's old moose, That was the first meeting.

Speaker 1: 1:37:13

you came over First one I was at, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:37:15

And I told Chrissy, i'm like this can go one or two ways, and she's like what do you mean? I'm like, well, he was a star major in the army, so this can go one or two ways. I mean, he can fucking know everything and let you know that he knows everything, or he'll he'll be one of the guys and and I thank you for being one of the guys I appreciate that shit. Um, because, um, i consider you a good friend and, uh, i'm glad you came down. I'm glad you ride as much as you do, Um and uh. So, yeah, i'm glad, um, either way, i was going to be the way I was.

Speaker 1: 1:37:55

So, um, well, to to that point, when we got done with that meeting and brandy's like, oh, she's, like Duke is so nice, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, like you said, when you see the, the sergeant major, you think differently. I'm like, oh, fuck man, this is going to be like I don't know how this is going to go. You know cause? the same thing, you know, is this going to be that? is he going to be the that is? is just the guy, or is he the guy that's still hung up on being a sergeant major? Right, and, and like Steve said, you're not hung up on being a sergeant major. We get to fuck with you. So much about it because, well, when you're, you know when, when you get out as an E five, you could fuck with the E nine now and have some humor with it. But, um, yeah, you're just. you know, you're just Andy, you're just Duke, you know it's, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:38:44

I had to do what Steve said. You know I had to do the sergeant major off because it was, it was hard. You know it was making me somebody that I didn't, you know. And being, like I said, the transition to civilian life it's not fucking easy. And uh, you know, and when you're, when you're doing it, coming from, you know, being the highest enlisted rank that the army has to offer to, just being a regular guy that nobody gives a shit about, you know, it takes a little bit off your plate and uh, but I still think it catches you off guard a little bit, though, cause the last night we were all here and uh, duchess said something like I don't give fuck, sergeant major, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 1:39:21

Like you didn't like re, re, like have this big reaction. but there was just a look in your face like little twinkle, like like.

Speaker 3: 1:39:30

I'm like come here, brother.

Speaker 2: 1:39:34

Little twinkle And it's hard, but yeah, i, i it. It has been so therapeutic for me to to leave. I'm proud to be a veteran. I'm proud to be a combat veteran. I'm proud to be you know, i can compartmentalize now of being a veteran and I treat veteran as past tense, um. Now we come on here and and we speak about, um, all the things that encompass that Um, and again, i'm I'm proud to be a veteran. But that fucking guy uh is is going, you know. But it's still cool when people hit me up on Facebook and say, sergeant Vic, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:40:19

Like it's still like bro, we're, you know what I mean Like, and some of those motherfuckers are E eights now or fucking. You know what I mean. Um, and you're like, god damn bro, like um. But yeah, like you said, it's, it's always cool when, um, them guys, uh, you know, reach out to you and uh appreciate what you did. You know, like at the time they didn't understand the method in the madness, you know, they just thought I was a dude. They fucking yelled all the goddamn time.

Speaker 2: 1:40:53

But it's, it's when, soon as chaos erupted, there was a lot of quiet in the chaos, and they don't, they didn't necessarily hear me yelling in the chaos because, um, everything, everything calmed down and uh, that that, i think, contributed to a lot of success we had in Iraq and in a lot of situations. Um, and I only say that because people have come back and said, hey, listen, like I don't lead like you now, like um, but I take a lot of things from the way you led. He's like, you know, i don't have the, i don't have the vernacular in my cuss words The fucking lead likes you and I'm like, well, you know it's, it's a science, it's a science.

Speaker 1: 1:41:50

We've said before, and I'm sure you probably feel the same way as an NCO, the greatest feeling and compliment you can get is when one of your guys calls you, emails you. Whatever it says Thanks, i get it now. Thanks, i only did this because you, or or whatever it is that the message that they give you. I don't. Nothing I've ever, ever received My time in the air force competes with a phone call I got from, or no, an email I got from one of my guys when he left a duty station and went to another one and email me back and said thanks, if, if it wouldn't have been for you, i'd have been lost in the fucking sauce when I got here And and I'm like I hold that message in such high esteem that I mean, it's not something you can pin on your chest or anything like that. It's invisible, it's just yeah, it's, it's, it's. That was 20, no 17, 18, 17, 18 years ago And and still to this day, that is something that I take as my my best accomplishment.

Speaker 2: 1:43:02

Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1: 1:43:03

Is that that? hey, and, and he went on to have a good career and and I you know I don't take credit for his good career, i take pride in his good career.

Speaker 2: 1:43:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:43:18

You know what I mean, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:43:19

And, like, like I said, i had a soldier say he fucking hated me, i fucking hate you, like to my face, and I let him live because I'm a nice guy.

Speaker 1: 1:43:31

No.

Speaker 2: 1:43:32

I mean, and after that deployment, boom, he goes to Ford hood and emails me. You know, a couple of years later he was a specialist, yeah, specialist. Then, when he became E six, he emailed me and said I fucking get it. I said, that's all it takes, that's all I need. Right, i fucking get it. I apologize, i get it Right, but you don't have to. It's called leadership, not like or ship. Exactly, you don't have to fucking like me, you just got to do what the fuck. I, as long as I, as long as you're confident that I'm not putting you in dangerous war side, I'm not putting you in, you know, dangerous situations You're going to do what the fuck. I say period, and so, yeah, and when he's like, hey, I get it, that's it, that's all I need.

Speaker 1: 1:44:30

Like you know, it's I equated to when I became a father. When I became a father, then you call your dad up and you're like I got you Right. I understand now Like things fall into place when you become a dad. You're like, Oh oh, that shit makes sense now, Like my dad and I's relationship got so much stronger after I became a dad And then I understood the decisions that he made when I was growing up.

Speaker 1: 1:44:58

At the time I thought they were fucking asinine or stupid or that he didn't love me or like there was some shit that went down. But now you know, I became a dad. I'm like, Oh well, this motherfucker was just stupid. Young, Young, didn't know, did the best he could, Thought he was doing the right thing And in the end it worked out great. But yeah, and I think it's the same thing, I think when, when those guys that you try to mentor and lead, when they become that, then that they get that click and then you call back and you kind of feel like your dad did when you called him back and be like I get it now, You know like, all right, it makes sense.

Speaker 3: 1:45:36

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:45:37

But I think it's important that everyone understands that regardless, regardless of your rank, regardless of your trials and tribulations, and and and the baggage you brought into the military and and the, the greater baggage that you left the military with you know, i mean, it's like that We were issued a rucksack and CIF when we were a private and we just kept piling that son of a bitch up for 20 years and we left.

Speaker 1: 1:46:10

We left. the military put a lot of shit in with them rucksacks We left.

Speaker 2: 1:46:13

We left the military with a lot of baggage and and some of that was good baggage. Some of that, you know, is shit. We needed a jettison. But I think it's good that people understand, regardless of your rank, regardless of the situation where you found yourself in the military, that everyone has baggage. It's all. It's all about how you deal with the baggage. And you know What you don't want to do is allow that to be be a weight right And allow it to drown. You Allow it to. You know what I mean Allow it to be be so much weight that you want yourself to death or break your back or or or whatever analogy you want to use. Sometimes you have to, you have to jettison. You have to, you know, discard some of that baggage.

Speaker 2: 1:47:18

You know I tell Chrissy all the time I'm not a huge nostalgic person. You know I don't keep a lot of my military stuff around the house or or or things that. You know I'm not huge on symbolism, but that's me. People are and that's great. But part of my transition was jettison that stuff so that that dude is dead. I don't. I don't have very few, very few military items left, so we ride. So that's that's how we get our leisure. You ride as well It hunting huge Oh yeah, yeah, hunting.

Speaker 3: 1:48:12

You called in some turkeys this morning, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:48:14

Yeah, so that I mean is is that equal? Like do you? what's the question?

Speaker 1: 1:48:26

It's like how we asked Gary last week.

Speaker 2: 1:48:28

Yeah, how do you, how do you equate the, the therapy right from ride a motorcycle into hunting? Is it equal? Is it? I need some of this?

Speaker 3: 1:48:43

I mean like, is it like ingredients to the cure, or you see, i'm saying like Right, yeah, um, i'm a big outdoors person, period, you know so, whether it's on a motorcycle or in a tree stand, as long as I'm out doing something outside, that's, that's my comfort zone.

Speaker 2: 1:49:02

Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:49:02

You know my mom, when I first came home and I was having issues, she said why don't you just come down to the farm and spend some time in the woods? That's where you seem to be. You know, right, that's it, that's your piece. And I was like you know she's right. But the motor, the motorcycle riding, is probably the most important aspect of of my ability to let things go and just be free. And you know and that comes back to when that motorcycle riding season is over and I can't get that anymore That we was talking about the funk and stuff. But to answer your question, probably the most important thing to me is riding the bike, is getting out there with you guys and and and just letting it all go. You know not having to care in the world except for you know where we're going to stop and eat that type of thing.

Speaker 2: 1:49:58

Yeah, and and again. We asked everybody this question because it's we want other people to find their thing, their leisure, whatever, whatever that they're. You know, um, what associates us, or motorcycles, that's what made us become friends. It's it's evolved into much more than that, but you know um, but again, there's more to us than motorcycles. You know, fixing um, fixing everything else, the gear head over there, fixing everything else out.

Speaker 2: 1:50:35

You know I'm not a huge um outdoorsman, um, so you know um, i don't find I find frustration, as you would. You know you, as we talked about earlier, um, you find frustration where you know turkeys come up when you don't, when you're not hunting turkeys. You know, and, um, yeah, i don't, i don't have the patience for it anymore. Um, you know I don't have the the, the passion to hunt anymore. Um, however, you know I do apply every year to go hunt moose up in Alaska.

Speaker 2: 1:51:20

I mean I'll suck up a a bad, you know a bad day in the woods in Alaska. Right, i mean it's not the back 40 here in Ohio, but yeah, i mean it's one of those. It's one of those things where I need, i need something like hunting, hunting bear with a pistol in two rounds. You know what I mean. Like if, if I don't have, if I don't have the equal um chance of dying in this exist exchange, and I mean I don't have that thrill. But that's me. Yeah, i tell Chrissy all the time I'm like, let me, let me take my 44 mag and go bear hunt.

Speaker 1: 1:52:05

She's like that's crazy. I'm like yeah that's the point.

Speaker 2: 1:52:10

That's the point When he, the poo's going to fucking die Right, like that's. that's the point. Um, yeah, so, um, and and you're a whiskey enthusiast Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:52:21

Not not quite as enthused as you, but I'm getting there.

Speaker 1: 1:52:26

You have baby steps, man, that's right Right. It's a long road from one bottle to whatever this quantity is.

Speaker 2: 1:52:33

It's a yeah, this is uh, which you know. again, i say I'm not into symbolism, but yet here we are. Uh, this is, this is my symbol of. uh. whiskey does not have power over me anymore, and yet here we sit amongst 200 bottles Um, but you know, um, we don't, we don't need to drink to have a good time, but it helps and uh, um, a lot, of, a lot of our good times surround uh are surrounded by whiskey. So, um, as long as we're not uh, um, you know, spitting on our boots outside, we're good. So if the to put a bow on it, um, i guess, um, if you had to tell people, um that are transitioning from the military um out to the real world, you got. you got a quality, You got a it's 2023.

Speaker 1: 1:53:41

There's levels to this shit.

Speaker 2: 1:53:43

When you're transitioning from the military out into the real world, give, give some major advice to those people that, uh, some advice you never had, that you thought, well, if I knew then what I know now, let me tell young private specialist, sergeant Duke um, how to, how to help transit one nugget, if you have one.

Speaker 3: 1:54:15

I mean, one thing would just be you know wherever you're transitioning from from, from the time that you leave to to where you're now a civilian. leave all that other shit behind. Yeah, because if you bring it with you it's going to make life rough.

Speaker 2: 1:54:30

Right, I'm yeah, that facts.

Speaker 1: 1:54:35

Big facts.

Speaker 2: 1:54:36

Big facts, all right. Well, um, duke, we we appreciate you coming on with us taking the time. Um, you know we had to get our schedules right. You know three guys that don't work And I fucking had to get our schedules right. I don't know how that works, but I'm glad it did. I'm glad you came on. We're busy doing nothing. I'm glad, um, you know, i'm glad, uh you support the podcast outside of being on it, but but being on it, uh, we appreciate you. Yep, yep and uh, we'll see y'all next time.