Mastering Long-Distance Shooting and Embracing Brotherhood: Gary All Out Hanes’ Journey

Speaker 1: 1:02

So this week's episode we got a special guest. It's Gary All Out Haynes. He's a chapter brother with us in the combat vets. Gary was just over a nine year veteran of the United States Army And we're bringing him in today. We're going to talk a little bit about that pew pew life. We're going to talk some guns and some outdoor sports, and you know how that fits in with Gary's mental health and the way he gets through the day. Well, welcome to Gary.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Thank you very much. Greatly appreciate you all having me here, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:31

And, as always, just just to reiterate we we're not talking about guns in a political manner, right? It does not matter to us what your political affiliation is or political stance on guns. Most veterans have dealt with guns in their career and continue to use guns for recreation, so we will not get into the morality of why guns are good or why guns are bad. But, yeah, thanks, thanks, gary, for coming on. We appreciate you. Oh, not a problem, anytime So so what got you started with guns?

Speaker 2: 2:28

Well, i always had a love for him on the farm, had to do pest management, woodchuck hunt, stuff like that. During my tenure in Europe I went ahead and went down to the local Rotten Gun Club, which would be equivalent to Capella's you know where soldiers can go, buy firearms and that and they had a Ipsak pistol match, international Practical Pistol Shooting Association, and these guys are running around shooting terrorists, not shooting the hostages, and sat back there and like whoa, this shit looks fun. Started talking to him. Guy Zane Johnson was a US civilian over in Heidelberg, germany, and he went ahead and built my race 1911, 45 for me. But he told me he said it's done and get expensive Right. So that got me into reloading And at that time I shot about 5,000 rounds a month.

Speaker 2: 3:40

I'd go to Laura Canadian Air Base. We went all over shooting different matches and did that. And then got into the defensive pistol where you go through with your weapon concealed And just I found out that when you try to focus and do precision shots you have to focus and channel all your breathing. You know it comes. Anyone can shoot a target at 10 yards with a shotgun Not hard aim points, pull trigger But when you start doing long shooting out past 300 yards, bullet drift starts taking effect and thermos and wind, and you know some of them guys, they they got the stuff down pat. So one one old timer works at chainsaw shop and he's one of these one mile guys that shoot the bullet and like 30 seconds later you hear the tink Yeah, no, that's, that's. I don't.

Speaker 1: 4:58

So so for you, what what started out as a childhood connection to guns turned into like a, like a competition sport that engaged all of your faculties Yes, And especially with being in the military at that time You know my air I'm a 1911 baby.

Speaker 2: 5:24

Y'all are the prey and spray kids. We give you 17 rounds and hope you can hit one target one time They gave us seven rounds and we hit eight targets because you take the gun and throw it when it was empty and knock somebody out. But yeah, it just focused all my training to Hit that one spot and when you can you know, like I've told my buddy before, it ain't showing off if you can back it up.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Right, so you got out what year 92. So it's been 30 years. How has Gary progressed from pistol competitions when he was in the military to where he's at now? Are you still participating in competitions?

Speaker 2: 6:20

I have not shot a competition in years. I am still an active member which I paid dues just to keep my low number. I have, like I'm in the alpha like a 22,000 and I don't know how many hundreds of thousand and they're on the letter W probably by now, or double a, double a, but it was always just to go ahead and, yes, it's fun to do. You know it's at Hogan's alley You're running around. Now I'm doing the same thing. I might shoot 10, 15 rounds out the back porch at the still target. Most all my guns now have scopes. Of course the eyes are getting worse, you know. But it amazes me when, at, say, 75 yards, you grab a rifle with iron sights and tag a target and you actually hit where you were aiming like oh shit, and that was with iron sights. I still got it.

Speaker 2: 7:32

Yeah that's exactly right, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:34

So now it's. It's less of a competition and more of just a leisure activity, way to pass the time, way to keep your brain engaged, way to keep your skills honed.

Speaker 2: 7:46

When I start freaking out or my thoughts start bouncing, i'll go ahead and I'd probably shoot 10, 15 rounds a day off the back porch, because to get everything back, focus is to take another crack at the target. You know, start focusing. I don't want 31 jobs, half ass done. I want to do one job, get it completely done and then go on to the next. And I find when I start spacing out, if I re center myself and go out and pop a couple of shots off of, you know, at the still target center mass, ok, i want two shots, two good shots, center mass. I'm focusing now and I will not stop until I get what I want Right, because if not I'm doing a half ass job Right. And you know I try to focus. Like most vets, my mind bounces, or at least I do. I'll walk into the bedroom, put laundry away and come back out with laundry in my hand like what the hell Right?

Speaker 1: 9:03

So You ride You ride.

Speaker 2: 9:08

I've been on a motorcycle, uh, yeah, years.

Speaker 1: 9:17

So you started out with sport bikes.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Um, my first bike was a Kawasaki 440 LTD. Oh, now, boy, i thought I had a leather jacket. Oh my goodness, yeah, god help me. Um, yeah, i thought I was fancy dude, i motorcycle out there riding. No, it wasn't a Harley. I think it cost me 500 bucks. But yeah, i rode that bike everywhere. And I'll never forget going into Cleveland on that bike and I was doing 85 miles an hour and people are just passing me left and right. I was like holy God, damn shit These people are. You know I'm a country boy, i ain't never been. My first trip to Cleveland was to go to the map station to enlist and get on an airplane and leave.

Speaker 1: 10:11

It was my first trip to Cleveland too. Don't feel bad, my first trip on an airplane.

Speaker 2: 10:16

I was on the wing looking out there, waiting for a monster to jump on it.

Speaker 1: 10:22

Yep, i was my first trip to Cleveland was meps. My first time on an airplane was to stay in. Antonio, texas, for basic training. Yeah, fort Jackson, South Carolina, relaxing Jackson.

Speaker 3: 10:33

Yep. Which is which is funny because my first time on an airplane was after meps as well.

Speaker 2: 10:40

And you know I mean my thing is growing up back in the 70s. I was born 65. So middle of the 70s. Hey, we did not go out to eat. I mean McDonald's and Burger King are a food group now. You didn't get McDonald's or Burger King. That was something super special around the family vacation. It was mashed potatoes and whatever my made for dinner And that's what you got If you didn't like it.

Speaker 1: 11:19

He'd be there tomorrow. So we got Fonzie Gary rolling into Cleveland on his little 440 LTD.

Speaker 2: 11:30

So what was the transition from that to I went ahead and jumped into the military like most people got. You know, had motorcycle endorsement, couldn't afford a motorcycle because I was a private e-nothing, nothing for Riley, kansas first duty station. And I had a buddy that had a FJ 600, ralph Fortuno from New York City, and he was going out on a date and he didn't. He didn't own a car, he just had a bike. So we were talking and I let him use my car. He seen that, you know, i showed him my motorcycle license. So he let me take his bike home for the weekend and he used my car for the weekend and damn, that thing was fast. And then my neighbor had a turbo Kawasaki 750 GPZ and he just came from Germany. Germany, that goddamn bike. That was that, that was quick, that was fast, that little turbo on there. Yeah, i bought in Germany a Honda shadow rotated back home and the Honda shadow I was working out at Ford plant out of the military in a 17 year old kid ram meal.

Speaker 2: 13:02

On seeing the amputation of the right leg, which means the only thing holding my right leg together was a back calf muscle, our night It was severed. Years of therapy, surgeries, learning how to walk again And I thought you know something? It wasn't my fault, i had. I did nothing wrong And my buddy still rode. My buddy would ride his head on the magnum, he'd ride it over and he's like man, you got to take my bike, i got to take my bike out. So he came over to visit me. I go and get on Mike's Honda. Mike goes go around the trailer park. So I went around loop. Mike had a zip tie, zip tied my right leg on there with the cast and said, ok, i'll be back here in a couple of hours and he left. Now I'm stuck on a bike.

Speaker 1: 14:01

Don't want to ride around the trailer court for two hours I just, i just want to go lay down, but I can't.

Speaker 2: 14:08

There ain't, no, there's no way Other than falling on the ground. but my leg is physically zip tied on the.

Speaker 2: 14:17

They had mid controls which were like forward controls and came back And then I thought, ok, i got to tell my mom I want to get another motor cycle. How am I going to undo this? I just told my mom. I said, look, he hit me. I wasn't goofing off. I mean, i've known people to go down pulling the wheelies down. I 90 and you know my thing is they get hurt. Ok, you're dumbass. Had you had that bike on two wheels instead of one, you may not have went down. Now I think it's cool. I like watching them. I've tried to pull one wheelie in my life and lost the bike. And my theory is now if you see me pull, will he get a picture? because it was a pure accident? Oh, that's my wife.

Speaker 1: 15:06

Why my wife has her road name. Yeah, yeah I just you know.

Speaker 2: 15:10

so I mean I got back up on the bike and just thinking, you know I didn't do nothing wrong. It's kind of in the way I tell people is, we've all been in a bad relationship But it don't stop you from not dating or not stop you from going out again. I get enjoyment out of being on the bike.

Speaker 2: 15:33

You know, i've done my sport bike, i've done the sport cruiser, i've had the fastest bikes and the quickest bikes available and then tried to make them quicker and faster. And then I got a Harley and I just got a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit. And then I got a Harley and I decided well, i want ABS, gps and radio. I don't care, i got cruise control. I'm good to go.

Speaker 1: 16:39

I just sit in the back, got my radio going and I don't want a super loud bike, and you can just, you know, make your radio so loud that it's louder than everybody else's bike.

Speaker 2: 16:53

Hey, you know if you take and request when you do that I mean hey, i'll turn my radio off and save the juice.

Speaker 1: 17:02

So so Gary's made the transition from a 440 LTD all the way up to your Harley now, and you've rode all different types of bikes and all different types of styles. What's the common thread between all of them? What does what does? what do the two wheels that Gary's been on all these years do for the space between his ears?

Speaker 2: 17:27

Hmm, it gives me that freedom. You know, i've seen a post and somebody said we ride because our brothers can't. That freedom that I get when you get on that bike it's your thoughts. I kind of, i guess I kind of leave my body because I can see myself on the bike. But it's that, that enjoyment of going down a slide if you were a kid, it's that fun, just to have the wind in your face. And you know, the greatest thing is is you're out there with your brothers and sisters that as bikers we all crave.

Speaker 2: 18:26

That club, that common thread, yeah, oh, ok. So you know we go ahead and get out there, have fun Now, whether it's the sport bike guys or the Harley guys or whatever, but you know it's like a motorcycle club, it's your family. So I've always said what we do during the summer Will carry us through the winter. Right, and what I mean by that comment is you know I hate hearing about The club brothers going down to Jacksonville, florida, or going up to regionals Because I wanted to be on that ride. You know, you hear and you live through them and the shit we do during the summer is What we talk about during the winter. Nobody talks about that great day 78 degrees, no win, perfect, no, no, no. But let's talk about embracing the sock. You know, going across the Mackinac Island bridge I've heard you know Steve and Bobby talk about it, that You know they had their bikes out of full tilt lean, it was blowing, you know, 131 miles an hour, hurricane, forced winds 42 inches of snow Up hill both ways.

Speaker 2: 20:15

You know, but that that's what gets you through the winter time. And these people I, i guess I don't understand Most clubs and Ours included. We never, ever Go out and recruit people. People come to us, we don't go to them, right? So you go ahead and, like an MC club, you'll probate. Well, here There is no probation.

Speaker 2: 20:49

Your DD 214 your ticket in the door there you go, and Some of I don't understand why people want to join a club But then don't ever come around said club. It just don't make sense to me. If I'm going to do work to join something, i want to get the full effect out of it.

Speaker 3: 21:16

You know it.

Speaker 2: 21:19

No different than Buying that shotgun. You know you can go out and blast the target two feet away. That's what's that? That's nothing. You know these guys own these bikes but they don't ever participate into the camaraderie. It's that as as Quoting a gentleman I know by the name of hellhound, it's that strategic five that you know it's some grunts up there. You know quarterback can call plays in the world, but If you're front-lining there you ain't going nowhere.

Speaker 1: 21:56

We we had an episode where we talked about you know, it was our self-isolation episode and we talked about how We we've learned to where learn. In Steve's case, he's learned, and for me I'm learning how to navigate October to April. As far as mental health's concerned, when I'm not on on two wheels, when you can't ride during the winter, does Does your your love affair of guns help you through in Between your riding time? like is that? is that something that you augment Your riding time with to help your mental health?

Speaker 2: 22:40

I would say that would be deer hunting in general, because during that time frame, october to February, it's archery season. So, yeah, you can go out there and hunt Or go out there and practice more gun. You know thing with guns is, you know, a dollar a bullet. So I go out and shoot 15 times. That's $15 Times, 30 days times 60. Yeah, it gets a little bit expensive. Arrows are reusable. There you go, yeah, but I shoot compound bow also and You know I have a love of the outdoors as most people. What gets me through is Sitting back and talking with the people that I've done the rides with. Like you know, you made the comment about doing 12,000 miles this year.

Speaker 1: 23:37

I did 12 last year. The goal this year is 15.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Okay, so you're at 15,000, where your goals at. That's gonna include all types of weather.

Speaker 2: 23:49

Oh yeah brace the sun. Oh yeah, and what we're going to talk about is that monsoon wind That was blowing over the Mackinac Island bridge. You know that's where you go ahead and have the good times. You know my wife, she rides her own, so I don't have to tell her, hey, hold on, because she has a license. She, she already knows now That's a good and a bad system, because I don't need to be told, hey, it's wet, be careful. I know this shit.

Speaker 1: 24:22

Okay, i've been. You know, i've been riding longer than you, woman. I.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Been down more than most people been up. You know I've been ran over twice, once by an F-150, once by a minivan. Life flight of both times. Blue back out, lost legs, still ride. My thing is, this is my enjoyment, this is me getting away To go get a fresh breath of air For 30 minutes. That's all I need is a 30 minute ride. Now It's like doing that thousand miles. We got 30 more miles. 30 more miles, yeah, and that's all you don't.

Speaker 2: 25:11

Look at it, i always break it down by gas tanks. I got five Phillips, that's it. That's it, that's all you gotta do. Five Phillips, okay, i mean, i love getting up there and Watching everybody go down the road. You know, i can still remember Seeing Bobby up in front of me and we were headed to Sheridan, wyoming, i think after it was a nasty downpour and just tired and wet and Just wanted to get off the bike. We only got 20 more miles. 20 more miles and then next thing, you know, you're at the hotel and You know the great thing about my wife is she knows from a first-hand standpoint of What to expect when the roads are wet. As a rider, you know, as a passenger, i've never been a passenger on a motorcycle. So I don't know what they do back there, right, do they sit still? do they help lean? I don't know and I don't have anything to say. But with Sandy happened, her own bike and riding her own ride, i know that She knows when the roads are wet to go easy.

Speaker 2: 26:36

I Ride aggressively. And the reason why I ride aggressive is I've been took and out twice By aggressive drivers when I'm like no, i've set back, done speed limit. You know, my thing is now, if I'm the most aggressive person out there, then I know what to watch for and that's the way. That's just. I've done it the right way. You know, 70 miles an hour, 6,000.

Speaker 2: 27:10

So I go ahead and I ride aggressive and me and my wife we argue about this all the time because she's wants to sit back like I'm more aggressive and people, i Guess in a bad way, they, they piss me off because their stupidity there ain't. I Know I'm not trying to Not answer the question, but I can just see people beside me as I'm riding my bike. You look over and they're They got the kneecap on the steering wheel, cigarette in the hand, text and drinking a cup of coffee and I'm jealous, and I mean the one guy actually beat on his damn window because he was still made me and I go, speed up, he'd speed up, i'm trying to get around him so I can get around the people in front of me, and this guy is still made. I finally beat on the dude's window like look, go or slow down, whichever one, and Sandy's like well, that was stupid, all right, wasn't the first time?

Speaker 1: 28:19

did he slow down or speed up?

Speaker 2: 28:20

Oh, he got the hell out of my way.

Speaker 1: 28:23

Wasn't stupid, was it?

Speaker 2: 28:24

nope, it revealed, relieve the tension at the time that I was feeling until I was made aware how unsafe my act was right.

Speaker 3: 28:37

And To go back to something you said, you know me and Shawn like to say all the time like we, sometimes we ride So much to clear our minds, to help our mental, our Mental well-being, to spite our bodies right. So I mean we ride.

Speaker 1: 29:02

We ride for our mental health, not for Physical what you told me the very first time I got off the bike with you and we were like And you're like, hey, we don't ride to make our bodies feel better, we ride to make our minds feel better.

Speaker 2: 29:13

That's right.

Speaker 1: 29:14

Hey, you get. And that quote has stuck with me every time I get off that bike and I'm like oh, fuck them stiff.

Speaker 2: 29:20

Look, i've lost a leg on the motorcycle. Before I stopped at a stoplight, had to make a left turn, had my feet down and click the little release button, made my left leg stayed right there at the intersection, so I pulled over to the side.

Speaker 3: 29:39

I thought you were gonna tell the story of you actually losing your leg. Hey, we already covered that.

Speaker 1: 29:49

You lost it twice.

Speaker 2: 29:51

Look, I had a guy grab my leg and go hey, are you missing this? And I had to tell him yes, I need your help. And the guys are what can I help you with? Said you got to put the kickstand.

Speaker 3: 30:06

I could not put the kickstand down on my bike.

Speaker 2: 30:09

I had it leaning on the left side and then it's like You look at it because you think maybe I'm fast.

Speaker 2: 30:17

And I could only see that going one way bad and the guys like You know, when you watch somebody walk up with your leg, first of all it's disbelief, right, kind of like the other day on the roof when the mailman came to help. I'm stuck on the roof, the ladder and the leg are down there in the ground. It is what it is. It's an adventure. There's something It ain't no different than having a leg bungee cord down the back of my bike and people go by me like what the hell is that? I tell everybody you always take a spare with you.

Speaker 3: 31:01

Right, i mean a lot. I watched a reel yesterday, day before, of two men were mountain biking. They were racing and one guy he Falls, and another guy's coming by him sees, sees the man down, he stops, are you okay? And the way the guys left leg from the knee down was contorted. He says, yeah, you know, like I'll be okay. And the guys like, oh, my god, right, let me pull you off the trail because there's other bikers coming. He's like Let me call somebody for you. And the guy sitting on the ground is like just give me two minutes. And he, you know, he pulls his pants down and his prosthetic came off. He's like oh man.

Speaker 3: 32:02

He's like let me just put my leg back on and we're good. He's like motherfucker.

Speaker 2: 32:06

Hey, I've been in that situation before which, yeah, it made me think of more than once.

Speaker 2: 32:14

They're riding motorcycle and have to drop the pants, get the leg off because you sweat, and basically What keeps my right leg on is I have a scuba diving suit That is goes over my stump. It's like a thimble. But when you sweat, your sweat stays inside that scuba diving suit. So now when you walk, as I'm walking, i can feel my right leg Drop in a couple inches and then you take that step and then you get the first sound up Because it's just jamming in there. So what do you got to do? You have to sit your ass on the curb Or on the side of your motorcycle, drop your pants, pull your knee On, do your leg, pull your neoprene off Right, go ahead and dry everything up, put it all back on, put a stump sock over your neoprene, because now, after using my leg, my leg actually starts getting smaller because of, you know, the blood flowing the morning. Blah, blah, blah. Go, strap it up, mount it up and let's go. I could just hear.

Speaker 1: 33:29

Gary running Like that and all you hear is fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2: 33:40

And you know it's bad when the granddad, papa, you're farting again. No, honey, i'm papa, dry your leg off, let's go. You know I got my kids, my kids know how to treat it, and Nothing like hearing the five here. I'm saying, papa, i'm hungry, put your leg on, let's go. I want to eat.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Well, and I, i think, i think it's a um, a testament to uh, military humor, right, or? You know our dark sense of humor. Uh, at my wedding reception, when, sandy, you know, we were doing the um, doing the scavenger hunt, yes, and you know the scavenger hunt was bring, bring somebody's shoe And sandy ran to gary and brought his whole leg up And the the non Military, non, you know people that know you or know us Uh per se, uh, they, they were a bit taken back That your wife is running through this um reception hall with your leg. It's a no-voke. My, my favorite gary leg story is what you did to jay down in kentucky Most certainly Oh mother fuck.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Most certainly one. You know most people when they see my leg, they got questions, kids Are the best.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I'm not sure if you know that They got questions. Kids are the best because kids will look oh, robot leg. That's exactly what jay said I want a robot leg.

Speaker 3: 35:14

Is he all robot, jay's like dad, dad He's a robot, but but when you took the robot, leg off and you hit him with the moose Why?

Speaker 2: 35:26

don't you go, moose baby.

Speaker 3: 35:27

You can't get away from that, you're hitting with the moose knuckle, you're ruining That. fucked him up.

Speaker 1: 35:33

He was like Uh.

Speaker 3: 35:39

Oh, I love jay to death. Oh no no, so the other night the other night.

Speaker 2: 35:45

We're over here.

Speaker 3: 35:46

Right the other night we're over here and he brought. He likes to watch movies in there on the big screen. Okay in the theater, so he brought some movies over. Well, apparently he was trying to leave the house with eight movies The other night for them to come over here and uh, yeah, i told him.

Speaker 1: 36:05

I said he's like I got my movies. I was like he's like I got eight. I said, bro, i said I don't think you're gonna be able to watch eight movies in a couple hours. How about you take like four? He said I got four. I said you said you had eight. He goes, i grouped him right. So.

Speaker 3: 36:24

So he comes over Right.

Speaker 2: 36:27

Only take one gun. I only got one. No, Hey what you said. I grouped him so.

Speaker 3: 36:33

He comes over and I'm like so we were sitting here talking playing cards and I'm like man I have a, a dvd book that I took on all my deployments.

Speaker 3: 36:43

I've watched All these movies, you know, so many times I'm like He would appreciate these, right, because he watches movies, he's religiously so I'm like I'm gonna give him this dvd book. So I go in there and I'm like a j, i want you to have this dvd book. He's like, oh okay, thank you. And then I come out here We're doing some other stuff and Sean goes. Sean goes in. Was there porn in there?

Speaker 3: 37:17

No, no, no no no, sean goes into the bathroom and comes out. He's like, hey, jay, get your stuff. Or about to go. And he's like He's like, oh, you got, steve gave you some dvds. Huh, he's like, yeah, they all suck. And he's like, what do you mean? There's some good movies in there. He's like no, they all suck.

Speaker 1: 37:40

He goes, they all suck. I only watch good ones.

Speaker 3: 37:44

Right. So then he comes out here and uh, you know I'm behind the bar and and uh, and I I'm not Purvey to none of none of that going on in there, and he comes out and he's like Steve, thank you, but these suck. And then you know brandy brandy's trying to smooth it out for him. Like well, they don't suck, yeah, they suck.

Speaker 2: 38:13

Just my mom always said out of the mouth of babes comes the truth.

Speaker 1: 38:18

Well, what it is is j likes to have every movie in a case, okay. So when he got all those movies, none of them were in a case, so in his mind they sucked. They weren't good ones, right? So Once we got that hammered out, i'm like is it is the reason they suck is because they're not in a case? Yeah, that's why they suck. Okay, we're good, we got that.

Speaker 3: 38:43

So yeah, so and.

Speaker 2: 38:45

But that's the awesome thing and that's talking about club life and The different clubs. This is my third club to third club.

Speaker 3: 38:56

Fourth We're not a club, we're an association.

Speaker 2: 38:59

Yeah, we're association. Thank you for that correction circle our baby circle are yeah, yeah, because I don't want to cut patches off and kick people out by now. Right, or throwing them out, yeah, that's pretty much the difference.

Speaker 2: 39:16

Um, but no, like I know where you're going, the, the um, especially in our group, the the family atmosphere, how the kids are comfortable around everybody, and oh my god And everybody kind of looks at them as their own kids and making sure they're taking care of and stuff so, yes, and that's the, whether it's jay or Whether it's Chrissy's daughter, and I don't know any of their names or any of the kids, but we're always Going to provide for one another. Um, i jump on a grenade right now for either one of you guys or for any of the guys and The chapter. Let me reiterate that brother, my brothers, that I call my brothers, not my associates I would jump on a grenade now, the associates. I will throw somebody on that grenade for you.

Speaker 1: 40:15

I dove on a grenade yesterday for Chrissy. Thank you, yeah, working on that damn car.

Speaker 2: 40:22

But I I think it's at family atmosphere and that's what we kind of got back to when we were talking Um The Motorcycle clubs were started world war two.

Speaker 1: 40:39

Hey, there was, there was. I listened to a podcast and on a facebook page It's called four for the road and they talk a lot about Um, motorcycle history and club history and I've learned so much from the years of research that they've done. You know, when clubs came around and and all that stuff and, and it's crazy how You know, in the prior to world war two they were mainly clubs devoted to racing. And then after world war two, when the gis came home and they were all those surplus of harleys, they, they, you know, think about it.

Speaker 1: 41:13

In 1945, 46, those guys were looking for the exact same thing that we're looking for in 2023. Yeah, you know, it's a testament to the effect that what motorcycles and riding have in in the environment, that it breeds for veterans to be able to come together, have that small unit camaraderie. And you know, fucking, 80 years later, we're all still looking for the same fucking thing. You know, generational, whatever it is. It's. It shows the what we've been saying all along when we say wheels the impact that motorcycling has, when therapy has on the mental well-being, the emotional well-being and the social well-being of a veteran, regardless of when they served, how they served or where they served.

Speaker 2: 42:09

And that's what I said, like during Desert Storm.

Speaker 1: 42:13

A hundred hour war. Hey we we, we can't pass. I don't know what y'all was waiting on in goddamn years. Try 20. And like, like I said, like I said before, you know the VFWs, they're, all you know, running short. We had to have 20 years of war so that we could, you know, add the numbers.

Speaker 2: 42:33

There you go, but you know you look for that camaraderie. You know that's what you want. You want that. you know you think about all the things veterans as a whole do. You know some people get out of the military. you know to hell with it. You know we all had attitudes at one time that you want that camaraderie getting on the bike. look at all the veterans organizations that we support. look at the money that we as veterans have spent. But we always have that one thing that we want to help, don't care who it is, somebody needs help. We're there. You know you put the call out or pop smoke and you got people coming from everywhere to give you a hand And that's, i can honestly say, like Abby's got all these uncles and aunts that are going to be watching her.

Speaker 2: 43:43

You know Nova's got all these uncles and aunts that you know these kids ain't gonna be able to do nothing in the Zanesville, cambridge, visville area because we're going to be all watching that. we're going to be there for them and we're there for each other. Now, i understand not everybody gets along. some friendships are tighter than others And I understand that, but still that looking out for one another like me, take a mom out somewhere. I know when I take mom there again. mom's been to more national meetings than half of our members And she's 89 years old.

Speaker 1: 44:39

She goes everywhere.

Speaker 2: 44:40

Well, but there again, mom see Steve, he's handsome.

Speaker 1: 44:46

Okay, that right there should show you her mental state.

Speaker 2: 44:48

That's dementia. Oh shit Wait wait, wait.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Does that mean, Christie's got dementia too?

Speaker 2: 44:58

It's a shoe fit, but I mean, what's that brotherhood?

Speaker 1: 45:05

and that dark sense of humor again.

Speaker 2: 45:08

That's what we thrive for, the fact that my wife can go up and maybe I have a, me and my wife have a different relationship. I don't know, you know everybody's relationship is different. But my wife to go to Minnesota or UP in Michigan with these guys All right, have a great time. Bye, i know, damn well, these guys have got her six. I do not worry, not one goddamn bit. Honey, i love you. Give me a call when you get in or send me a text along the way, and there again we're going to do the same thing in nationals. You guys will leave here, i'll already be out there. She'll send me, you know, wheels up in five. I send back XO, boom, okay, and then later that day she'll send me one. You guys stop or whatever, and that's fine.

Speaker 2: 46:16

I mean I can sit in the garage and look at my bike and think of every ride I've been on. It's like that horse in the stable. You know, i told Sandy that I was looking at a mountain mule and she's like what the hell is a mountain mule? I said it's a mule that they use out west to ride up in the mountains And the reason why you have a mule is it's a better ride than a horse. It's more gentle. And Sandy's like what I said well, you know my neighbor's got work. And she's like what are you doing? I don't know. Just like horses, i like looking at my bike. You know I got a Triumph Thunderbird with, i think, 2100 miles on it. Yeah, i've only put 300 miles on it, but I can sit and look at the bike in the garage and think about all the rides like damn, yeah, it's like brushing a horse. You know your wax and your motorcycle. You know there's MEG You have to clean it.

Speaker 2: 47:23

Yeah, i don't wash, mine.

Speaker 1: 47:25

Some people, hey, i know, just keep fucking right, it's it, i just it. I'm looking at it like like toys or cars when they try to take the dense out of Mater and he's like no, everyone of those dents is a memory. There you go. That's how my dirt is. Oh, that dirt I got there I got there.

Speaker 2: 47:45

I look at it like this one Harley changes oil, lake and Washington because I do not. I've had chrome motorcycles, i've had shiny, i've had darked out, i've had sport bikes where it's nothing but plastic covering up the motor. And when I bought my Yamaha straddle liner, i was on the forum because a road liner by Yamaha is the one without a windshield and without bags. The straddle liner had a windshield and bags And I was like, yeah, and then they had the blacked out one or the chrome one. And somebody put on this chat group I go to the car wash, i insert $1. I spray it down, i leave zero wiping and I thought, well, if you got a blacked out bike, shit, spray it down and go.

Speaker 2: 48:49

And now my bike's chrome, because Harley didn't have the blacked out version and I will not spend the money to black out my bike. And it's like I told Sandy, yeah, like another bike, but you know, all I can see is my gas tank and my ferry, that's it. I can't see the rest of the bikes. Guess what is paid for. I don't like having a motorcycle payment. In the wintertime. That sucks when you walk by your motorcycle and you still owe on it And you're like motherfucking, goddamn snow outside.

Speaker 1: 49:24

That's why I pay for my insurance once a year.

Speaker 2: 49:26

So now see I get criticized for dropping my insurance from November to April. Now my theory is I can go buy another gun because I just saved over $600. Some dollars, yeah, no, i know, when you got to ensure three Harleys or two Harleys, three triumphs, two quads and one side by side And I stopped my insurance on my Harleys during the winter and just put that storage, i get like almost a $600 credit.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Yeah, no Well that's another gun. Yeah, because because if it's fucking mid December and I want to go for a ride, I'm going to go for a ride. It's fucking Yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:11

Hey, how many, how many he spends.

Speaker 3: 50:14

Listen, he spends so much money on stupid shit. But motorcycle insurance is the bridge too far.

Speaker 1: 50:20

Hold on a second Hold on. We need to make sure that we don't specify what stupid shit he spends money on, exactly Because we do not want his CPA slash wife you know slash, slash, slash to find out any of the stupid shit he may or may not spend money on.

Speaker 3: 50:36

I will not confirm nor deny none of that. But you.

Speaker 2: 50:39

Here is Beep, beep, beep, beep, and what that sound would be is the cement truck coming in and putting a brand new cement driveway all the way out from the road Now, whenever you all come to visit Sandy and you fill my presence. yeah, because I'm up under the goddamn driveway.

Speaker 1: 51:04

You take, you take a metal detector over the driveway and you're like oh those were Gary's legs.

Speaker 2: 51:10

Like, look, she turned off the phone, but she forgot to unhook the leg. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 51:15

I mean, and it's. But to go back, i mean it's, it's a testament to you, backing up what you say allowing, and I don't mean this in a uh uh. Spin it out and then explain it, brother, take away right, you allow in Sandy to roll with us because again you know, i would never let anything happen to Sandy.

Speaker 2: 51:47

And Sandy would never let nothing happen to you Right.

Speaker 3: 51:51

Exactly, most certainly. And and um San Sandy rides as well, um, probably better than most of us, um so I give her credit on that in her ability She has.

Speaker 2: 52:07

And I ain't saying men are better than women, by no means Am I ever saying that shit. I guess from being in the military from the age of 18 all the way up and then getting civilian jobs. The one thing I am blessed about is in the army. If you're an E five, willie's in the five, and I'm an E five, we're all getting paid the same.

Speaker 2: 52:31

Right Now, i expect people to do their J O B. That's all I expect people to do, but Sandy would never, ever do anything or allow anything to happen to you because of the amount of respect she has for you. Right, and I know you, as my brother, would die before you let something happen to her. Most certainly, and we all feel that way, and that's what makes us one step tighter than the guy that shows up at a club meeting and did all this shit to join And we got a damn near back home to come to a meeting. I don't understand this.

Speaker 3: 53:17

You only get out of things What you put into it which it also goes to like we were me and Sean was talking yesterday about the time. We were sitting there and I was telling you about me and Chrissy going out to Indian Lake and you said are you riding? I said no, i said I'd love to, but, um, you know, weather's coming in the day of the concert. And I said, but, we're going to be there a couple of days and be great to ride out there. You're like, take my trailer. And I was like you know, okay, yeah. And then, after that, you know, i was like Hey, man, um, was you serious about me taking your trailer? You're like well, did I say it? I'm like, i'm like well, there's a those people out there that you know they tell you what they think you want to hear at the time. You know like, hey, if you need anything, call me. And then you fucking call them and they're like, oh, you need that today, or right. But how? how, you didn't really know me from Adam at the time, cause.

Speaker 3: 54:28

I was new, i was new in the chapter at the uh. Biking rib, biking rib and uh, i was new in the chapter and you're like, hey, take my trailer. And uh, we were talking about that yesterday. It the same same concept, like you know it's. I feel the same way, sean. you know Sean is is, sean has, uh is giving my wife grief about, uh, this car that he volunteered to to repair And now that the job is, halfway done.

Speaker 3: 55:08

Well, yes, and it's a little more um involved than he thought he was going to get into, but but that's the thing. But you know, and I'm like prior to that, i'm like, Hey, um, let's find someone who does this for a living, not because I don't think he shouldn't do it, because I know how much he has on his plate And I know he wants to do it because he's a friend. You know what I mean. So it was, that's the thing, that's, that's what I'm trying to get around. It's, you're absolutely right, there's there's differences And I think, without getting in too much of the, the chapter T, you know there's people that don't feel um air quotes welcomed, right. You know, the the cool kid club.

Speaker 2: 56:05

I don't know how people can't be filled.

Speaker 1: 56:08

Welcome it to cool kid club, right, but I mean, the cool kid club only has one requirement show up, show up, yeah, i mean, but, but, yeah, i mean, but that's.

Speaker 3: 56:21

But if you show up, you get the same treatment as everyone.

Speaker 2: 56:27

You know, i mean and my thing is, it takes us 20 minutes before meeting, 20 minutes after a meeting, to say hello and goodbye. Right Now, if you want to walk in, sit your ass down, not talk to nobody, people are going to still come up, shake your hand or say hi to your whatever, and then you just want to run out and leave after the meeting. That's on you, but that's what you just got out of it. You just spent half your day with these people that you said you wanted to ride a motorcycle with and didn't even say hi, or or? you know, i understand we all get pissed, we all have bad days, we all have good days, you know, but it still breaks down to that thing of being there for one another. I mean, when I told you come get my trailer, i'm at it.

Speaker 3: 57:20

You most certainly did. You know, we got the trailer and it made No different when you moved and you called and you're like man, i fucking hit this stuff.

Speaker 2: 57:28

Dude, are you okay? You're drunk. I don't give two fucks about that trailer. They made a thousand trailers in a day. Right, i can go get another, but you know, first thing he did is sent pictures, got you apart. Boom, boom, boom. You need me come over and help you put it on Shit, it was already on.

Speaker 2: 57:46

No sit here and bullshit with me, But that's the brotherhood and that's getting to know. You know who Steve Vickers, aka Hellhound, is to find out how fast I want to jump on that grenade for this man, And you know that said, okay, can I throw a table on the grenade or do I got to throw another body on top of it? Right, Cause I can grab a civilian. But that brotherhood and that camaraderie, you don't put yourself out there if you don't, mean I don't. I guess at 57 now, doing this shit for over 30 years in clubs, associations, I don't have the energy anymore to put my friendship out there to people because, like everybody else, I've been burnt, Been burnt bad. But my inner circle of friends you handlebars, Bobby, Duke, Gaskin, my circle of friends, Sean, everybody it starts getting tighter because, okay, I click with Sean or I click with Sarge on shooting this. Okay, well, if Sarge comes over and we blow through 200 rounds of 45, that's where me and him are building our friendship.

Speaker 2: 59:18

Everything's got to be built from the ground up And if you don't have a good foundation, like a relationship, you're not gonna have anything worth building. To me, the foundation that I have with 12, six, these are the guys that are gonna be at the hospital when I'm in there. These are the guys that came to visit my mother-in-law in the hospital with the little teddy bear that she still has and a balloon that said get well, better, And it made mom stay, even though mom don't really remember it, you know, because of her dementia. But the guys went ahead and did something for mom to show their concern over her in the hospital. Now I love my mother-in-law to death, but I know that gave my wife more comfort and I cannot say thank you to you and Don for showing up there, I believe that was you two guys, that came up there And you know, this is the family, This is what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

And look, I'm no different than anybody else. If I screw up and fuck up and I got to get talked to by the executive office board because something I said wasn't appropriate or something I didn't wasn't appropriate, I'll handle it like a man. You know, if I overstep my bounds, I'm man enough to say, hey, look, I'm sorry, But you know, like me and you were me and C were talking earlier I'm still the same guy that you can call me, send me a text, knock on my door like hey, dude, I didn't appreciate that joke about my motorcycle And you put a tampon on my back tire. Okay, big fucking deal, dude, I'm sorry, I apologize, It was a joke, whatever. Well, yeah, but you said my motorcycle's for a bit, Dude, drop it. You know, I mean, people can't take a joke.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

I don't know what to say to you Going back to you thankin' Steve for coming to mom's hotel or hospital room. It reminded me of and I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember the quote exactly, but it was from one of the Batman movies where he's like, well, we didn't thank you and you'll never have to. And that's exactly what it is. You don't ever have to thank up Like we appreciate the thanks, but you don't ever have to feel obligated to thank us for what we do, because it's what we do. We'll do it regardless.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

I told Steve when I joined I said you know, coming from you know, my dad raised me in a more of an old school motorcycle list upbringing. The word brother is very sacred. And I told Steve when I joined I said you know, because I saw a lot of the guys just throwing brother around everybody and I'm like that's a word for me to call you that That motherfucker has to be earned, and so I refer to very few guys in the chapter as brother because that's something that's that's been beat into you With that but it but it's sacred, you know, and that's why you know when, when Chrissy was telling me about her daughter's car and how much it was gonna cost to fix it, and I looked it up and I'm like it's gonna be a little bit of a pain in the ass, but she doesn't have that kind of money to drop to get her car fixed. And she needs her car fixed. You know She. You know she got a little baby and stuff like that. That was a no brainer for me.

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

Now I motherfucked that car like there was no tomorrow last night and I did and I motherfucked the shit out of it and I told Steve to tell Chrissy she cut into my fucking call of duty time. But that was like there was no hesitation on my part. You know what I mean. Like that was if I had the capability to help him by helping her, by helping her daughter. That's a fucking no brainer.

Speaker 2: 1:03:36

That's family and that's where it all comes into, that that family that you know. You got Steve's back, which you're watching out for Chrissy's daughter. Be through Steve and we all come together to make this club as great as it is. But the benefit from this club I never knew.

Speaker 1: 1:03:59

Association.

Speaker 2: 1:04:00

Oh, thank you, association Circle R, circle R The great thing is We're gonna get delisted, demonetized, dethroned, de-verified.

Speaker 3: 1:04:15

We'll have the very fast speaking guy at the end of all the discipline.

Speaker 2: 1:04:21

The views that are expressed on this show are not ours.

Speaker 1: 1:04:24

If you're suffering from carcinoma from Camp Lejeune water, blah, blah, blah, blah blah.

Speaker 3: 1:04:30

This is trademark of Ricky Bobby, Number one. you're either first or last.

Speaker 2: 1:04:37

You know, but it's like that clip from the movie where the guy walks in and says look, i'm gonna need your help, we're gonna go beat some people up. Never done, talk about this again. You know. Are you with me or are you without me? Whose car are we taking, right? Yeah, hey, shit, you call me and tell me, start digging a hole, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

When we had Sarge on, one of the things we talked about was Joey Diaz has a line. He's a comedian, It's you don't need 20 friends, you need three motherfuckers And you can take over a country with three motherfuckers And that's what it is. You know, i know and that's what I told Steve. If the shoe was on the other foot, i know he would have done the exact same thing. Steve is one of my motherfuckers And I know that, no matter what, i can rely on Steve to be that motherfucker. No questions asked.

Speaker 3: 1:05:36

And which is funny, because in the military I used to, when I I'd stand in front of my baton. I'm like now, you motherfuckers.

Speaker 2: 1:05:46

And I'm like.

Speaker 3: 1:05:47

I'll preference this by saying I use motherfuckers as a nicest possible sense, but you motherfuckers Not to piss me off.

Speaker 1: 1:05:54

Right, it is a term of endearment.

Speaker 3: 1:05:58

Don't, don't, don't be calling EO on me, cause fuck Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:06

But that's the thing. You earn the respect. And you know I see these people put in the miles and I see the people like you guys do. You know I've sat on the side of the desk or the table that you're at And some people come in here and they throw 100%. Some people come in here, they don't throw 100%. And who gets more out of the club? Self-explanatory, with our club you're getting mothers, daughters, fathers, brothers. You're getting a mix of everybody that's there that you can count on And, like you say, you earn it. I agree with you 100%. People throw.

Speaker 2: 1:06:55

You said the word brother to you is sacred. I you know. The word to me that is sacred is when I tell somebody I love them, and I have no issue getting off a telephone and telling one of my club brothers hey, man, i love you. I don't have an issue with that because I don't know if you're gonna get on your bike and ride today. Right, something happens. I'm not gonna be sitting there saying, damn, i wish I would have. No.

Speaker 2: 1:07:27

Life is too short. We know this from being in the military. Yeah, everybody nowadays knows what it's like to be shot at. You're thankful it didn't hit you. Thank goodness You would have jumped in front of it for anybody else, but it's that person that earns your respect, that becomes a part of you. Like you and Steve, you guys probably are on the friends and family program because you all on the phone all day, like with me, and that I'll go ahead and call you know handlebars all throughout the day because he's truck driver And I have no problem with telling my brother that, hey, man, be safe, love you.

Speaker 1: 1:08:25

So to kind of tie all this together guns, motorcycles, our association, your close knit friends, like all of that is encompassing for you the wheels part of our whiskey wheels and wounds. All of that goes into how you take care of yourself without having to take in those destructive vices to move forward in life and all that jazz.

Speaker 2: 1:09:12

The wheels for me would be the therapy part, because the wheels to me help heal my wounds Right. That and you know we've all. Whatever trauma you face is different from you, but I ride for my brothers that have gone down. It takes a lot to get back up on a bike after you've been took out once. It takes a lot to get back up on a bike when you've been took out twice, because my thing is shit Third time charmer. Well, if I go out doing what I love, i won the fucking game.

Speaker 2: 1:10:12

My father God bless his soul wherever the asshole is told me he would never leave his property until he was carried out horizontal. My dad's wife was taking him to a doctor's appointment, got him in the car. Dad had a cigarette, beer, got up, dad had a massive heart attack. She called the squad. He went out horizontal. I ain't upset. Dad won, he got what he wanted. And me. It's no different than somebody getting divorced, getting married again. Okay, well, i went down. I got back on a bike, went down again, got back on another bike. You know it's like all right. Now let me go into the cruiser mode. You know, once you ride a motorcycle that's got floorboards, you'll never want foot pegs again. Once you ride a motorcycle with cruise control, that's kind of hard to give up.

Speaker 1: 1:11:17

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2: 1:11:18

Especially on some of our long rides that we do. You know it's nice just to sit there with your hands on the handlebars and thinking about whatever. however you daydream to get yourself away to help your wounds. And to me, without the wheels part, you're not gonna fix the wounds And I think it's a building block, right?

Speaker 3: 1:11:46

So guns and motorcycles have been there your whole life. They were there before your trauma, right? Correct? I mean, and you know hell. they probably helped escape some childhood trauma, right?

Speaker 2: 1:12:04

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 1:12:06

To get on some guns in the backyard or on the back 40 of the farm, or get on some motorcycles and get away from you know life as a youngster right on the farm.

Speaker 3: 1:12:21

So, like those are building blocks, those are things that will always be there for you And they allow you. They allow you the opportunity to expand out right. It's a gateway, right, gateway leisure activity, everything else right. So I say that to say 2016, i wanna say I had a set of golf clubs. My father-in-law was an avid golfer. We would take trips every year to Myrtle Beach in golf And so I bought a set of he gave me a set of golf clubs and then, you know, i kinda, yeah, okay, i can golf a little bit. So I then went and invested into a set of golf clubs And towards the end of you know, when I started getting, when I got injured and playing golf, after I got injured in 2010, hurt, right, physically hurt, and also it was, you know, you wanna be good at something.

Speaker 3: 1:13:46

Be good at something. You don't wanna do something half-assed, like you said, you wanna be good at something, and golf's one of the most frustrating things to be good at. Right, tiger Woods gets frustrated. You know, john Rom, he just won the masters. He, you know, like professionals get frustrated at golf and they're fucking good at it. It's one of the most difficult things to master, or whatever. So, you know, and I kept playing after 2010 and one day in 2016, i fucked around and let my garage door open all night part of the brain injury thing and just absent mindedness left my and my clubs were stolen. So I was like, well, i could spend $1,000 on getting another set of clubs, or more, or, or, why don't, why don't I buy a AR platform and take that to the range? and it's less impact on my physical health and it's a better impact on my mental health, because that's something I'm proficient at Right. So that's what I did I bought it. I bought it. Ar platform a, two, two, three, you know nothing.

Speaker 3: 1:15:21

Crazy and it just took it to the range and, and you know, putting five rounds center mass at, you know 25 yards, or whatever Man does, a world world.

Speaker 3: 1:15:38

You know what I mean Oh yeah, but also when, when, that's when you realize a, you got some nerve damage in your right arm and I'm a right handed shooter, you got. You got some brain issues. You know my brother-in-law, he had a stroke Right And he he's an avid Now he's an avid shooter Right. So he, but with his stroke He he'll just. You know, when I went shooting with him the one time, he just shooting boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right, no, no real rhyme or reason, just pointing the gun forward and shooting, pulling the trigger, and then you back the, uh, you back the target and and he's like I didn't hit it. I'm like, yeah, there's a method to this madness, right. And I'm like he's like, well, i'm like where are you aiming? You know you go through that Where are you aiming? Well, if you're aiming here and you're not hitting the target, you have to now trick yourself, right, you have to trick your mind and to aim in a different location. So you're hitting where you want to go. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:16:58

It's.

Speaker 3: 1:16:59

Kentucky windage. It's Kentucky windage, what out? You know what I mean? Like it's picking up a rifle that's not zeroed, it's picking, or something to the effect. And then we spent the next you know 30 minutes in there on saying, well, this is what I do. Um, this is how I trick myself. I know, i know my rounds hit, you know here. So I and uh. But I also go through the same routine. I start at the bottom of what I'm aiming at, i move right and then move up to what I'm going to shoot. I then natural pause on my breath and then squeeze the trigger.

Speaker 2: 1:17:38

See, now you're focusing all that energy into hitting that target, right, and that's, nothing else matters. Right, the sound of your breath laying down on the stock of the AR. Right You're. You're getting that great sight picture equal distance. You got your fingertip right on the edge of the trigger, like you were taught in basic training. Now put five rounds in that little hole. Yeah, put six right. You know, try to go ahead. If you aim small, you miss small. Yeah, you know, go for. Aim at the guy's button on a shirt, just don't aim at the whole shirt. Aim for that button Right Now. Can you do it four times? Right?

Speaker 3: 1:18:25

But then and then, once you do that now, now, um, shorten the time it takes you to do that, right.

Speaker 2: 1:18:34

You know, it's like I told you know.

Speaker 3: 1:18:36

I told my youngest daughter when she was playing softball don't do something until you get it right. Do something till you can't get it wrong. There's a difference, right, yep.

Speaker 2: 1:18:47

And that's where.

Speaker 3: 1:18:49

that's where proficiency comes from. Don't do something until you get it right. and then, just, you know, sit your back down or sit your glove down and walk away. I'm like, hey, i hit a home run. No, where multiple home runs come is when you do something until you can't get it wrong. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:19:07

Now, even if you don't hit a home run, if your swing is the same every time, right, that's the till. I can't get it wrong portion, your likelihood of hitting a home run goes up, elevates right, goes up, um, substantially. So that's, that's the thing. So with him, i was, you know, it was like, hey, this is what I do with my brain injury and my injuries, you know, um, in my right arm, this is how, this is how I combat that, right. And then he took that And now when he goes shooting, he applies those principles and now it makes it more enjoyable, because now I'm not just wasting money sending rounds down range because I like to hear the bang, i'm actually hitting what I'm shooting. you know, hitting what I'm aiming at.

Speaker 1: 1:20:00

So he has he has, um, the tools now. Well, he has the uh, the, the validation on the target now that he's becoming proficient at what he's doing as opposed to. I don't see anything on the paper, you know it's. It's that frustration with golf, Right? You know you. You want that validation that you're doing something and you're getting better. Right, because when you get better at it, you're going to want to do it more and it's going to provide more enjoyment, and you know so. I mean it's.

Speaker 3: 1:20:32

And and, like I said it, it leads to right. I didn't play golf since um, i played golf one time since 2016. Or, excuse me, twice. I borrowed a set of clubs from my father-in-law and played, And then, after that game, i'm like, listen, my body hurts It, it hurts Um, so I didn't play again. And then I played uh, me and uh CLP went up to uh Columbus for a mission 22 event and we played and uh, i was like, okay, i need to keep the clubs in the closet, you know, and uh, but now you know, i've lost some weight, um, i've addressed a lot of my physical ailments to to help my quality of life. And you know, last Friday I went out and played around the golf and it felt pretty good, you know, and that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 1:21:40

You know, we, we have those core leisure activities that we love to do And those allow us to a, um, get us in a better mental space and be, get us in it. Um, i'll allow us to transition, expand our horizons, um to other things and and to, you know, my, my blessing is my wife likes to do everything I like to do. That's my blessing. So we're not, we're not doing things separately a lot. You know what I mean. And uh, so we, we, she enjoys shooting, she enjoys motorcycle rides and all that. So that's, that's the thing where, um, you know, when you can share that with others and it's not a chore, it's not a chore for her to come do things with me, or vice versa. Um, it allows, um, people to enjoy things together.

Speaker 2: 1:22:56

And that's a lot of. It is the enjoyment, like I said, with my wife riding with Sandy, i got a kicker ass out the house or kicker ass onto a bike. You know, when she was out there in Indianapolis for three years, you know she had her bike out there and she was on the bike. I drove her bike out there and I drive out there, pick her bike up, bring it back, um, swap out bikes, do get oil changes, or tell her, you know, schedule an oil change because you're getting ready to ride out there, and then you guys ride out there, pick her up. Okay, yep, i mean to me, i love the fact that my wife loves to ride as much as I do. Um, uh, hard worker, dedicated. Yeah, i got a kicker ass out of the house to get her some headspace timing. But there again there's your wheels, right, and that's. It's a joy when your spouse loves to do what you do, because I don't have to explain to her that you know I need a break. I got to get a break, you know, taking care of mom Yeah, it gets stressful at times, but there again I look at mom and I think nobody would ever want dementia. I wouldn't wish that on nobody Right. And all mom knows is you know we're getting ready to go to Colorado Springs this year and with the handsome man With the motorcycle, you know, um.

Speaker 2: 1:24:40

But yeah, like I said, everybody in this chapter I think I don't want to assume has a, has a great Life story and has a love for life. Um, everybody's seen death, especially being in the military. You know the ones we've lost. We get out there and we do the memorial rides for them, or we go ahead and help the kids. Like we said, our kids are all of our kids. Well, when you do a teddy bear run or what have you, you know some little kid is receiving that gift.

Speaker 2: 1:25:32

I look at life like this. I've been down twice. I've used up a lot of my life as a cat. I have a nine, you know. I carry with me a little medicine bag and in it I got one of my chapter coins, one of our first ones from Um uh, the honor flight we did. And then there's also a bullet that uh didn't find this mark with me that I carry that somebody. Well, they lost. You know, um. But have a joy for life. That life is precious. You're here today, gone tomorrow. Um no, a gentleman had a stroke. He's truck driver. Now he's had open earth surgery. Guess what? He'll never drive a truck Can't pass physical.

Speaker 1: 1:26:27

Right, what I, what I tell people, is. I don't want to. I don't want my headstone to say here lies Sean, he, he, he existed. Right, i want to come sliding in sideways, beat the fuck up, worn out, dirty, filthy, the whole nine yards, 20 minutes late, and then my headstone says he lived. You know, i want, i want, i want to. I want to live, i want to enjoy my life. I don't want to die with a massive bank account. I'm okay with dying, being broke If I got to take that money and live with it, and that's that's. That's. That's been key as being able to embrace that I'm living now, as opposed to just existing.

Speaker 3: 1:27:24

And that's the quote right, Get busy living or get busy dying.

Speaker 2: 1:27:28

Well, I, I heard it like this in life, You have a day that you started and a day that you ended. What's important is that dash, right? How much information do you want to be contained in that dash? You can have a big bank account Now. Get 200,000, 300,000. Hell, get a million bucks. Put me in your will, Thank you. I'll toast you, Right. I'll toast you every time. You know shit. You give me a bottle of water, A bottle of whiskey, every time I see that airs to you. Steve, that was one of the. But you know, my thing is enjoy life I want to do.

Speaker 2: 1:28:12

When I got back up on iron after the first time, then after the second time, I decided you know something, I want to do some long trips. And I started doing four day weekends, you know. And then, after my amputation, I took off for like 45 day. I hate us that. I just got on my V max and wherever I went is where I went. I know where Johnson City, Tennessee is. I've been there, Me and Dearest Rucker, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:28:44

I mean, yeah, it was a safe haven to find out and get that joy in the sun on your face, Right? It's no different than going on your first motorcycle trip. And then you pull into that scenic overview that you've passed a thousand times in a pickup truck, in a car, and you just stand there and look at it and you think, wow, I signed up to defend all of this. And you look out and there's a place down in Nashville, North Carolina that I guess route 81, they got a scenic overview And I mean it's up on top one of the mountain. You just look and then I think I said I would die to defend all this And you look how much space is out there, Yep, And at times I guess I just get amazed at what it is and And how little I actually did for this country. I mean, you only got a Being I can't even say being the military, be a civilian. Go to Korea. I bet you're going to be real happy that your ass is in the USA.

Speaker 3: 1:30:08

Yeah you know, so, gary, how long after, how long after you got out of the military, did you start going to the VA?

Speaker 2: 1:30:22

Oh Lord That, like I said, thank God for this chapter I didn't know. I mean, i got out of the military. We had a little like aid station, band aid station. I went in I I remember going in there and giving them a copy of my DD form 214 and Getting out of there and never using them again. And then I got in my bike accident. The second one and I had a Gabapentin was a drug they put me on and is supposed to eliminate backache Or sore muscles or something. But why had to buy it out of pocket? and it was like 450 bucks a month, i mean. And my buddy said, well, why don't the VA give that to him? Like what do you?

Speaker 3: 1:31:13

mean And he's like.

Speaker 2: 1:31:15

Well, go to the VA. Dude, i didn't retire.

Speaker 3: 1:31:19

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:31:19

And that's all I knew. I knew, if you retired out 20 years or medical, that you got full benefits Right. And then I started to get into it And it wasn't until, i think, we bought our house here in 2012. And the chapter got going. I think about 2016.

Speaker 3: 1:31:44

Yeah, 2016.

Speaker 2: 1:31:46

And I can remember me and Bobby talking And I think at that time I was like 20 percent.

Speaker 3: 1:31:53

So when was the wreck? The wreck was the second time.

Speaker 2: 1:31:56

The second time was 29 February 2004.

Speaker 3: 1:32:03

2004. And then, when did you get into the VA system?

Speaker 2: 1:32:08

Shit 2010. Ok Yeah, I didn't know anything about it. I mean, that.

Speaker 3: 1:32:20

That's what I'm getting at. You're 100 percent now.

Speaker 2: 1:32:23

Yes, I am 100 percent now.

Speaker 3: 1:32:25

That's, that's what I'm saying, and I said I said that I asked that to get to this point where you know there's, there's people that may be listening to this podcast, thinking their, their percentage is never coming.

Speaker 2: 1:32:43

I went ahead and I remember talking to Bobby and me and left hook talking, and I didn't know it was a tinnitus. I got disapproved for tinnitus And I was talking to Bobby and Bobby's like, what are you telling me? You got to put noise on all this. I didn't know any of that shit. I break it down to you to know what's ailing me. It's like I just found out what neuropathy is, where your legs going up. Well, hell, that's just happened for you. I just figured it's because I'm fat and I'm overweight, right, you know. I mean right, i didn't know anything.

Speaker 2: 1:33:25

Everyone is what percentage are you? Well, hell, you know, i got shrapnel in me. I 20 percent, no big deal. I didn't know about anything else. I was completely. It was a learning curve. And here's the thing, thank God for my brothers, the ones in the club that had the knowledge and the wisdom and shared it. Right, because now what I try to do is share the knowledge. You know, if there's a veteran out there and you're not in the VA Health care system, get your DD form 214 and get your ass down there and get into it. You don't know if in a month, six months, eight months, something could happen to you, right?

Speaker 3: 1:34:17

And and that was my point 13 years between enrolling into the VA system and getting your final percentage Right.

Speaker 2: 1:34:29

Yeah, So 13 years, that's a whole Right Now, some of that's self-inflicted as you said, not knowing, Not knowing where to go to get information to what benefits the milk the VA or Department of Defense have available to veterans. I never knew we got medical coverage.

Speaker 1: 1:34:53

So so last last episode we had Sarge on, you know, and Sarge was a VSO for a couple of years And that was something that we covered was where you can go, what to do and stuff like that. And so you know, i think what Steve's trying to do is tie in what we talked about with Sarge last time with your a prime example as to why we wanted to share that episode with everyone. Right, because you spent so many years not knowing And then you spent 13 years trying to figure it out and get through the system. And you know what Sarge talked about last week and that look, just just that little bit of information he gave can set someone on the right path to where they're not spending decades plus trying to navigate the system and figure it out, or or, moreover, they're not giving up.

Speaker 3: 1:35:48

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 1:35:50

So me and left hook is the one that you know he wasn't even in the VA health care system, right, and you know I told Bobby, i said Hey, sign up for it. Right, you know, maybe maybe by us signing up and like I did, the Guernsey County one, but that knocked me. That meant I had to go down to Chilacothe Hospital Due to the fact that the VA makes my prosthetic legs. I use Wade Park because they have a level one prosthetic clinic that if I break my leg I can get on the phone right now, give them a call up there, they can pull out my mold from the computer on the CAD machine, start making me another leg, right. So by the time I get up there in two and a half hours, we're pretty much ready to rock and roll.

Speaker 2: 1:36:52

But it's one of them things that, if it wasn't for Bobby, kind of pushing, or us pushing each other Right And started to find out things. And now, yeah, like I said, i'm 100 percent. Now What P and T, permanent, total, yeah, permanent. So you know, and that's again where you have sacrificed your body, right At some point during your military career. We all seen the pictures of the soldier with the rucksack and then it says no, you're not service connected for back pain and VA Right.

Speaker 2: 1:37:37

You know, or you're an engineer and you're grabbing blocks, or you're a mechanic and you got your toolbox and you slip in the mud, which I have seen that happen, and people with that extra 90 pounds on their shoulder, you know, get a back problem from it. But if it wasn't for the left hook pushing me right and me pushing him, it wouldn't have happened, because it was him telling me. You know, you got to explain the tinnitus to the evaluator And only thing I want to say, that evaluator, that ain't your friend Right, that is your ex-wife's attorney.

Speaker 3: 1:38:20

That's who they are, and they're there just to find you mission Right.

Speaker 2: 1:38:26

Direct answers. You don't need to get into how your day's going. You have to walk in there at the worst possible day that all the symptoms are kicking your ass And that's the answers you give I've never heard it.

Speaker 1: 1:38:44

I've never heard it described as though ex-wife's attorney.

Speaker 3: 1:38:47

But so, but that's the point I was trying to make like the journey right that you took. There's a lot of people out there that they don't know, so that's why last episode was so important for us And also a testimony of someone that didn't know, then got put on to knowing and then did took the journey to now. You know, i'm not saying everybody that's out there that thinks they're 100%. As I said in last episode, you know, the best way to be 100% is to be 100% Right, right.

Speaker 2: 1:39:31

You don't ever want to be the first one they see at the ER Right.

Speaker 3: 1:39:37

And and you know so I'm not saying you're guaranteed you wait 13 years. You're guaranteed to be 100%. What I am saying is whatever you do, right. If it's 20%, if it's 30%, 90%, 100%, whatever you're do, whatever your ailments, whatever compensation your ailments qualify for, you know, stay in the fight, stay, stay in the fight, stay in in charge of your health care and and get what is coming to you. That's what we say every episode.

Speaker 1: 1:40:17

You, you have to be an active participant in your own. Most certainly, i fell at that.

Speaker 2: 1:40:25

Well, and a lot of guys do Well and here's the thing I don't know, when you honestly talk to a veteran, if they will give you the correct answer. Now I'm going to answer for me, and only for me. Have I ever thought about suicide Shit three hundred and forty times every two hours? Here's the problem. Tomorrow Be the best day in my life.

Speaker 3: 1:40:54

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:40:54

I'm going to be here tomorrow, right, because it's going to be the best day in my life. Every veteran, when you're going in and I stress this to vets go Talk to somebody, make a mental health appointment. Don't try to be he man, don't try it. You know, and I'll be the first one to admit. When I sit down in my council and they're like you, ever think about suicide, gary, how are you doing? Or you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, let's not even talk there, let's just jump, because I'm afraid if I tell you my answer you're going to get really scared. Right, because Y'all remember Sons of Anarchy, right? Right? What was the very last picture you seen on that TV show?

Speaker 3: 1:41:46

Right, i was all jacks with the with the arms up.

Speaker 2: 1:41:50

There you go, baby, But and to me fucking destroy it perfectly Good old bike. Like look, dude, you don't kill yourself, don't take the motorcycle with you, damn it. It's like didn't do nothing to you, right, you know. But I mean, i'm a Yeah And I will say this I, if I opened up, like most veterans, the dark side, humor you. It would scare people, right? Well but you got to heal.

Speaker 3: 1:42:22

But there's a, there's a fine line. There's those out there that just want the percentage.

Speaker 3: 1:42:27

Oh yes, i will agree with you Because we've had talks, we've had talks with other veterans that they're like hey, how'd you, you know, how'd you get 100 percent? And I'm like, well, first of all, i'm broke as fuck, right, so, um, be be 100 percent. Second of all, like, if you're having trouble, well, i'm really having trouble with post-traumatic stress. Okay, so let me give you brochures about this organization I work with, and let me give you brochures about inpatient care, or let me brochures about you know whatever. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. What do you mean? I need to know what to tell the doctor. We'll tell the doctor the fucking truth. If the truth gets you 100 percent, so be it. If it don't, then what the fuck?

Speaker 3: 1:43:21

Like, if you're, if you're fishing for you know a percentage, i don't Go go find someone that's going to help you do that. I mean, there's plenty of Facebook ads of people out there that will help you get a higher percentage. What I'm saying is, if you battle post-traumatic stress, there's places out there you can go to help post-traumatic. We're not in here advocating how to get 100 percent. We're here saying if you're 100 percent, get on a motorcycle. And if you, if you're suffering from depression, if you're suffering from anxiety or things of that nature. Go do something that you enjoy. Yes, exactly, and get out. Get out of whatever brain space you're in right now, whatever mental space that has you in a mantic um, in mantic mode. Get out of that and go do something.

Speaker 2: 1:44:29

Here's what I would tell people People put on a pair of pants, get up And go ahead and go outside. Ain't nobody going to get you. You got nothing to worry about, right, take your ass down to Harley dealership Yamaha, kawasaki I've wrote them all. I've owned one Harley in my life, right, and that's the one I got right now, and the only reason why I got that. Me and the wife were riding up in Michigan I believe it's I-75 headed, hauling ass out of Detroit and bam, everybody come to a dead stop, and I mean right now, and me and Sandy, we both locked them up. She took a vase of action and hit the berm And I went between a minivan and a pickup truck And I was looking through Sandy, through the glass at the minivan, and she's on the other side of the minivan And I'm like what the hell just happened? And I mean it literally scared, asshole, puckered. Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:45:37

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:45:38

We get off a couple of exits up get gas And I said what?

Speaker 3: 1:45:42

the hell happened back there She goes.

Speaker 2: 1:45:44

I don't know. And I mean you had four lanes, come to a complete shutdown right. Now, right, four minutes later, road opens up, race. I go all four lanes like a drag race And I thought you know something that was close. I want to get something with ABS. You know I don't use because I'm a right leg amputee. Right, i cannot use an ankle on the brake pad, so I have to lift my whole prosthetic leg up with my thigh and then get on the brake but only get it on it as much as I want to without locking up my rear brake, right.

Speaker 2: 1:46:25

And that's when I went to a Harley And my thing is go ahead and go to a dealership And I don't care if it's a dirt bike to get you outside or a side by side gardening, i don't care what it is. But if you're a veteran and you got that anxiety, you got the demons. Get outside and do something. Take them to the dance. They're already in your head. They don't leave your head Right. Take them on the motorcycle ride with you. See how they like it, because until you get that healed you're always going to be broken. Yeah, now, once you go ahead and accept the fact that, all right, i got it. So Sandy knows how to handle me. My club brothers and sisters know how to handle me. It's all about enjoyment. Go out there and do something today to put a smile on your face. Yeah, be honest with your health care professional, because if you're not honest, you can't get help, and that's the important thing.

Speaker 3: 1:47:40

The important thing is you getting help and not fishing for.

Speaker 2: 1:47:48

A rating. A rating? Well, i went and I'm going to talk about me because, yeah, personally, right, i was at 90 by myself. Right, I got that 93 or 97. All right, i went ahead. I wanted to get some things re-evaluated Right, joe Biden signed the PAC-DAC which the environmental thing?

Speaker 2: 1:48:13

Right, and thank goodness he did do that for us veterans, you know. But then I got dropped down to 70 percent. Right, i'm like, ok, i don't know what the hell is going on. That's why I hire somebody that knows what, that knows more than me. You know, if I need a plumber, i go. I don't hire an electrician, right. So I went out and did some research on YouTube, found an attorney group. Here You guys go, you know, we're going to take this, all right. Well, i've already tried. I failed. I didn't say the right words, you know. And the attorney group said well, we're going to take 200 bucks a month. Ok, well, i ain't got nothing because I don't have nothing now, right, well, they won. So they used whatever big $10 dictionary word, right, they had to use, and they got it.

Speaker 3: 1:49:15

Yeah, so, gary, i appreciate you coming on. Man, it's, it's always. It's always nice to talk to you. I usually it's when I'm cutting grass. I've cut grass twice this year.

Speaker 2: 1:49:30

You haven't called me, so I thought you had people now.

Speaker 3: 1:49:33

I did have people. But now that you know, now that I go to the gym and you know, i mean it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 1:49:42

I can't what. It looked like you were losing weight.

Speaker 3: 1:49:44

Right, it's. it's hard to justify walking five miles at the gym every morning and not being able to cut grass when I get home.

Speaker 2: 1:49:58

So I can justify that shit all day long, right.

Speaker 1: 1:50:02

I can't wait until I get to. I can't wait until I get to the point where I can have somebody do my grass. I fucking hate yard work with a passion Like it doesn't matter. from skinny I'm fat, fucking broken, not broken.

Speaker 2: 1:50:13

I fucking hate your body was made for Antarctica.

Speaker 3: 1:50:17

Yeah, well certainly.

Speaker 2: 1:50:18

Well, if it would be negative 20 outside all year long, I would sleep just fine. You know, first thing the wife said this morning when she come upstairs and get coffee was damn, you had the door wide open. Yes, for God, I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:50:36

I live in a neighborhood with a bunch of old people, and old people love to fucking do yard work Like.

Speaker 2: 1:50:41

I don't get it. Oh, dude, they do that shit like a six o'clock in the morning, right.

Speaker 1: 1:50:46

If I had it my way, I would fucking concrete my entire property.

Speaker 2: 1:50:49

Oh, so you want to move out to Arizona, right Where you got rock No, he don't want that heat.

Speaker 3: 1:50:55

No, he don't want that heat, he don't want that.

Speaker 1: 1:50:59

I know I was going to tell my wife and my kids all the time I keep the house cold because you can layer up. Yes, I can't. I can only delay her to a certain point And at some point you don't want to see. Yeah, you know And I know what real fucking heat is. Yeah, because, unless until you've been in a port of John in Iraq in August, right after they wash that motherfucker you don't know where hot is until you've been over in Saudi Arabia.

Speaker 2: 1:51:28

And a four person latrine and you got the skill to stroke one out with nobody knowing it.

Speaker 3: 1:51:36

And all that note.

Speaker 2: 1:51:39

See you all next week. I can switch hands and gain the stroke. I got skills.