Motorcycle Therapy: Healing Power, Addiction Recovery, and Navigating Veteran Disability Claims with Jonathan “Sarge” Haney

Speaker 1: 1:03

Hey everybody, on today's episode we got a pretty special guest. His name is Jonathan Sarge Haney. He's a 21 year United States Army vet. He's a good friend of ours. He's been a lot of miles riding with us and he's also got a pretty interesting insight. He was also a VSO for helping guys get their veteran compensation. There you go Benefits compensation. I was trying to find the right word for it. So, yeah, welcome.

Speaker 2: 1:34

Thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:36

So basically how we'll start here, sarge is and I say Sarge, yeah, i queue you up. Sarge spent some time in the United States infantry. If I ever hear the infantry gripe about life in the Army old infantry infantry soldier, 21 years, United States Army, where you know we became friends Again. We're members of the same motorcycle association and we ride many miles together, And just can you? I guess we'll just start off. What does riding do for you?

Speaker 2: 2:29

It's a way to clear my head, gives me some relief. I've had a bad day Right. Go out Just kind of washes everything away for me. Gets me away from what's going bad.

Speaker 3: 2:44

Right, i mean before that, like you used to race cars, correct, did that have the same of it?

Speaker 2: 2:54

It did for a while, and then it just started creating a lot more stress for me. That's why I got out of it.

Speaker 3: 2:59

Because of the money. You know what I mean. Like motorcycles cost money, but you know racing, racing cars is. You know it's a never-ending cycle of you know I got to add more to it or shit breaks more often.

Speaker 2: 3:17

And it wasn't the money aspect of it, It was the people aspect. Oh well, you know, it's just the never-ending stress of the track.

Speaker 3: 3:25

Okay, yeah, but but like we say, you know, wheels, as in our name, is a metaphor for the leisure that we take to avoid, right, or to minimize some of that stuff in our heads. And so I knew you race cars, and, and and raced for for a while.

Speaker 1: 3:57

And then you used to ride baggers before you transitioned to the bike that you're riding out, right, correct, sir? Yeah, how was that transition for how? the difference in riding styles for you?

Speaker 2: 4:13

I can go more country roads, back roads, less traffic, a lot less seen people. Right, and you're very much an introvert, so yeah, So I can get a lot more places, more scenic routes per se. I mean you can see a lot of scenic routes on the baggers, but I can get a lot more into the country on my BMW.

Speaker 3: 4:38

And what? what's? what's set off the transition from a street glide to a BMW.

Speaker 2: 4:50

In 2018, I went to a hike. There was a veterinar who spoke about the motorcycle relief project. They do a PTSD rides for veterans in Colorado and Arizona. I applied for a ride. I was accepted to it. So in June of 2018, I went out there and did a ride. They do rides. It's on BMW GS 1200s and 750s 850s I believe So it's a week long ride. You ride through the day. At the end of the day, you do workshops. I won't go into the details of workshops. If you're interested in that, you can go to motorelieforg and check out their stuff. It's a great program. Can't speak enough about the program, what it done for me Motorcycle relief project.

Speaker 2: 5:45

Great group of guys, But they use the BMW GS, So I've never ridden one before. Until I got out there, I was kind of always skeptical of them. I looked at them like okay, they kind of look odd, Which everybody looks at me the same way, especially going to CVMA event. First day of hop doing it My car, everything has some power Road. At second day, I'm like all right, it's actually pretty decent on my back. Third day, I'm like all right, I'm getting rid of my street client and I get back to Ohio.

Speaker 3: 6:20

See, and that's all it takes and I bring that up knowing the story and knowing how you feel about the guys at Motorcycle Relief Project and how you feel about the transition from your street glide into your BMW now, so much so that you upgraded your original BMW to a new one. So I mean, it's like we say all the time, how you get wind therapy is not necessarily what we're trying to get you to do, it's just getting wind therapy. And a lot of us, i don't know, i think, are bikes or attached to our DNA. My personality is attached to my bike.

Speaker 1: 7:31

For me, it's how I was raised. Dad's always been a Harley guy, so I just got raised as a Harley guy.

Speaker 3: 7:38

But I think in the same vein, your bike is attached to your DNA because it gets you away from the most people.

Speaker 1: 7:49

Right.

Speaker 3: 7:51

It's a mule, because it'll take you to high and far away places by your lonesome.

Speaker 1: 7:59

But on the same token you know you ride 600 miles with the bagger guys and I think you're probably less painful getting off than we are sometimes.

Speaker 3: 8:10

Right, i mean, yeah, i mean it's all encompassing, but the fact is, riding the miles right, riding the miles, You know it's. We know me and Sean know again you're an introvert and how you deal with long rides and you know you put up with people. For as long as you can put up with people Right, and you're not necessarily rude about it You're like OK, it's time for me to go do my own thing. And you have. You have been consistent, for you know, i've known you since 18. So you've been consistent since then. So it's, it's not a character flaw, it's just a trait you have And those who ride with you just you know, accept it.

Speaker 1: 9:14

Yeah, last week we talked about the 12,000 miles that we did. You know, i did almost all of my miles with Steve, and you were there for almost every one of those miles as well. It may have only been just the three of us with you know, chrissy or Brandy, but I mean it was. It was the three of us that I think together we probably put the most miles together than anybody else.

Speaker 3: 9:41

Right, and that's, you know, that's, that's the therapy for me, you know, i mean it's, it's the, It's the shady hotels and Louisville roadhouse, right It's right, i mean it's, those are, those are the.

Speaker 3: 10:03

Those are the moments that that you remember. You don't remember a good night at the Holiday Inn Express or shit like that. You remember, you know, when you go to put your key card into a duct, taped hole in a wall, and you're like there's no way, there's no way, this is going to open this fucking door. And then the door pops open and then you go in your room and it looks like a crime scene. You know, i mean short, i mean short of having a chalk line on the floor. It looked like a fucking crime scene. You're like, well, i mean It's a bed. And then you know, then we went and got thrown out of a Mexican restaurant because we walked in, you know, as they were closing but they still fed us, but they heard us, hurried us to fuck out real quick. Yeah, those, those are. You know, when you look back to two years later and still, you know you still laugh about it as much as you did then. And that's what it's about.

Speaker 1: 11:13

Well, yeah, like last night we were talking about coming back across 70 and he you know my dad riding back with him and stuff And again he said I don't need to stay in no fancy place, i ain't gonna make no reservations, i'm good with staying in a roadhouse. So I mean, so it's just become part of the, the, the vocabulary of the roadhouse.

Speaker 3: 11:33

Yeah, yeah, it's like the devil's anus. The devil's anus, but it's like the spot we stayed at on the way back from Wyoming. All right, Yeah, I mean when, when the when, when the carpet matches the drapes, matches the bedspread, matches the wallpaper.

Speaker 1: 11:54

That's an hour off the interstate.

Speaker 3: 11:57

But that was the only thing we could fucking find within 400 miles of Wyoming. So I mean it did what it was supposed to do And but yeah, i mean it's, it's. It's one of those things where you know, you think about I guess before you ride, you know like we're riding to Colorado in first week of June and we're going to do the iron butt, so you're going to do a thousand miles in a 24 hour period And I guess, when you, when you rationally think about that, you're like God damn, right, god damn. And you know, i guess eight, eight, 70, i want to say 870 miles is me and Chrissy did it in one day.

Speaker 3: 12:55

And when we were down in Marietta I was like Hey, you want to go to, because her daughter just had our first granddaughter. I'm like do you want to go to Columbus? And she's like you know it was during COVID. And she's like I don't think we can get in the hospital, so it'd be a wasted trip. You know we have to wait till she goes home. I said okay, we were feeling good, we were feeling good that day. So you know, another couple hundred miles I don't think is going to be a huge factor force, but it's still that mental block of it's going to be a grand, and so well, it's going to be a grand.

Speaker 1: 13:44

And it's going to be a grand or one of the most boring fucking highways on the planet.

Speaker 3: 13:48

Right, right, especially when you get into Missouri and get into Kansas. It's Kansas is rough.

Speaker 3: 13:59

Because you know anything, anything west of Salina and there's nothing. I mean it's it's. I mean, if you pull up an atlas and and look at, you know a map of Kansas and everything in the East, i mean there's interstates going north, south, east and west. I mean it's it's. And then you get. You get west of Salina and there's like one road going that way, one road going south and you're like fuck, it's 2023 and you're still like that, like God damn, like there's a reason. You're a flyover state. Yeah, but you know, i used to live in Kansas, so don't give me shit. You know I'm telling you the fucking truth. But that was the same way with Nebraska.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:57

You know, the Brassica, the, the only like. if you ride in Nebraska you have to ride to and from. so when the wind tilts you and it will you have to ride back the other way.

Speaker 3: 15:14

So it tilts you the other way, so you go, wear your tires, even It's it's yeah, it's, it's one of it's one of those things like we, you know, we rode through the Nebraska on a way out to Wyoming and then didn't ride back. So now my shit leaning, but yeah, i mean it was. But those, you know, um, that and and when it rains, you know what I mean Like there's, you don't sit around and talk about the stories when it was, you know, 70 and sunny and and and all that And everything was good It's.

Speaker 1: 16:28

You know there's not a lot of rememberable things from you know a perfect day And we really need to start taking some lessons from this guy, because every time we go places and we get soaked, he's always fucking dry. He's like takes his jacket and stuff off and he's dry and we're all like fucking ringing our, fucking everything out. Our bones are soaked. Yeah, He's like I got good gear. I got good gear yo.

Speaker 3: 16:58

He don't spend a lot of dog hairs on much for what he does. It's fucking, it's fucking good. So getting into the the um, so can you talk to us about um alcoholism.

Speaker 2: 17:23

So I am a recovering alcoholic. I'm still an alcoholic and I will be till the day I die.

Speaker 3: 17:31

Till the day you die. That's it.

Speaker 2: 17:34

Um. next month, April 24th, will be nine years I've been sober.

Speaker 1: 17:37

I haven't had a drink.

Speaker 2: 17:39

Congratulations. Um, do I want a drink? still, yes, every day. Yeah, um, i choose not to because it'll be the end of my marriage, right? Yeah, i uh.

Speaker 2: 17:58

I have no shut off when I drink. Um one's too many, a hundred's not enough. Every time I drank, i drank till I blacked out. Yeah, um, it was ruining my marriage. Um, it was ruining my life. I dare to say I might be dead now if I hadn't quit drinking.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Um. so the drinking also led to drug use. um, that turned me into cocaine user. Um. so you know that was depleting my bank account, right, um, my bills were always paid, had food in the fridge, everything. Um. so as a functioning alcoholic and drug user, um, but uh, had it under control for a while. so I thought um went to AFK and I stay and come back, started drinking again. My wife let it go for a while, um, so I wouldn't drink around her. She'd go to work. Like well, she isn't here. I drink while she's not home And I drink in black out and pass out. She wasn't home, i'd be in bed and she let that go for a minute and uh, until she didn't. And uh, she's like all right, this is it. She goes. either you quit and get help or it's done.

Speaker 3: 19:22

Right.

Speaker 2: 19:23

And I'm like, well, she's put up with a lot of stuff. um, on my time in the army, the deployments, uh, training, uh, ncos, schools, right. It's been a lot of time away from home and this woman's been with me through thick and thin Like I need to get my head out of my ass. and that bottle is not important.

Speaker 1: 19:43

She earned the, the, the effort it took to get clean Right.

Speaker 3: 19:49

She, yeah, it's, it's. She had equity built with you and that's you know me and Sean talk about all the time My situation. Very similar, um, but the difference is the support system, like when, when you have, when you have people that enable you to destroy yourself and you're not strong enough, smart enough, uh, man, enough to say you know this is destroying me and you know those people closest to you were absolutely fine with you destroying yourself, with you becoming someone that you despise. You know, um, my situation was, you know my person, that, ah, that did you know she. You know my ex-wife, 20 year um spouse of the United States military, and uh, yeah, i mean she looked forward to me leaving. You know all all the deployments, all the field training exercises, all the NCOS schools, all the. She looked forward to it And uh, you know it says a lot about you know, i think it says more about um, the, the person I was then. Then it does about, uh, the person she, she was. But yeah, i mean it's.

Speaker 3: 21:27

It's one of those things where, you know I say it now with Chrissy, um, it's easy for me to want to be uh a better person, uh, around her, because you know she is uh so supportive and so, uh understanding of some of the issues I'm having And uh, it's, and and that's. And I say that because you know it takes, it takes not only the veteran but the family, the caregivers, to to not not give you a pass. Right, you're not looking for a pass, you're looking for someone to understand um, that. You know, um addictions. You know it may have started as an excuse, um, but then it becomes a reason quickly.

Speaker 3: 22:28

You know, i mean like, um, i start drinking for X, y or Z, and then that that uh matures into I start doing drugs, because drinking is not, i'm not getting the same satisfaction, so I have to do something uh stronger, harder, whatever. Um, yeah, i mean it's. It's one of those things where, um, if, if you have that person that gives you rope and then when you start you know choking, they're like all right, i mean you, you can cut this or you can continue to hang there, right, it's your choice.

Speaker 1: 23:18

So you said that you know the drinking and everything almost destroyed your marriage. Yeah, was it, was it. Was it still intact enough that, um, when you started trying to get clean, that she can see the light at the end of the tunnel? or was it at that precarious spot where you really had to show that you were serious about it for her to be like, okay, i'm not taking serious?

Speaker 2: 23:47

No, there was. It was salvageable that. You know, she saw that I was serious and I was quitting and I saw it help. That's good.

Speaker 3: 23:56

And that's and that's how and that's how the the foundations right, so it's building blocks And uh, again, i mean it's. I don't want to sound hypocritical and tell family members a put up with some bullshit, oh shit. But you know you got to take it with at face value and you got to take it for, uh, what it's worth. And if you love your veteran when they're at their best, right, then continue to love them when they're at their worst. And now if that veteran don't want to get help, they like themselves blacked out, drunk, Okay, then you know, at some point you got to move on. I get that, but you know it takes. It takes a um, it takes a village sometimes to, to and and we've said it many times like um, you know, veterans, i mean shit, humans, right. Personally, i'm not going to change until I want to change.

Speaker 2: 25:12

So you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 25:13

So um, until until the veteran wants to change once you change their habits.

Speaker 3: 25:23

They're not going to, and and they're not going to do it for family, they're not going to do it for God, they're not going to do it for you know, whatever, um, if, if they don't do it for themselves, it won't last. And I mean, she can encourage you, right, hey, john, i need you, i need you to unfuck yourself, and and you be like Raj, yeah, but until you say, hey, john, i need you to unfuck yourself. Um, it's not going to happen. And and you know for me.

Speaker 1: 25:57

I told him that you know it's. I looked in the mirror one day and I didn't like the motherfucker that was looking back at me And that's what made me go okay, i need to do something about this. All right, and it was everything. you know the impact on the wife and the kids And everything. but it took me looking in that mirror, going you dirty bastard, i don't like you.

Speaker 3: 26:18

It's a it's rough And it's, and it's rare that you know, most of the time you hear a catastrophic event happen that people are like, oh, i need to get my shit together. You know it's, it's rare. When you wake up one day and you look at yourself and be like man and and you give that good self assessment, right, that not a lot of people can do because you know they're biased and and and they're fucking vain and they think their shit don't stink And uh. So it's rare where you don't have a catastrophic event. Like you know, i had to get arrested in my my front yard in front of my kids for me to like, maybe, maybe being in this situation is not beneficial for me anymore And but it.

Speaker 1: 27:16

But you still was destroying yourself afterwards.

Speaker 3: 27:21

Yeah, i destroyed myself more afterwards. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Cause the catastrophic event led you out of the environment, but didn't change your behavior.

Speaker 3: 27:34

Right So.

Speaker 1: 27:34

So so then the question, the following question. I have that especially for you two, cause I don't have this substance abuse history right, i'll call it stuff like that. But, but you do What? but? but, um, adjacent Right, but.

Speaker 1: 27:50

But my question is is that for the three of us looking in the mirror saying, you know, there's all these other factors, but ultimately it was the three of us going, okay, we need to figure our shit out because we suck Right And we need to fix it. But why was that something that is very common between the three of us? that because we're all from three very different backgrounds, three very different branches, three very different experiences, but why do we think that thing was common between the three of us that a lot of people can't do? They can't look at themselves in the mirror and do that honest self-assessment That's really fucking hard And and say, you know, however far down the rabbit hole we are, okay, this is it, this is it. We need to start climbing our way back out. Was that something that we learned from being in the military, being an NCO? just the type of mentality that we have?

Speaker 3: 28:44

Yeah, I think. I think it might be all encompassing, but I think there's a reason why we're all friends too. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like there's something that we see in each other, that we see in ourselves, that resonates. You know what I mean. And it's not the backstory necessarily that resonates, but it's it's. You know. You just see the other person doing things that you would typically do or normally do And you're like ah and then that's what you know, that's what gravitates, you know, and and some things.

Speaker 3: 29:23

It ain't all things right, like I am a novice Kalidushi player, right, i'm a novice, right, yeah, so, but it's, it's something you know. I don't get as pissed off as you do about getting my fucking asshole pushed in on a fucking nightly basis.

Speaker 1: 29:55

And you don't have the the ridiculous dedication to a hundred percent in that shit like I do.

Speaker 3: 30:01

Right, Right It's almost borderline unhealthy, Right, Um. but yeah, I mean, you know. so I mean, I guess there's there's limits, right, There's limits to that. But you know, I think it has a lot to do with our mentality. You know, we were just sitting here, uh, talking about your son, right, And how we each would approach that same situation that he was in over the weekend, and and we all concurred, right, That we would have fucked him up too.

Speaker 1: 30:36

Right, you know what I mean. Well, and that's what I was hitting at is we talk a lot about how you look at a guy and you're like, yeah, that's not the type of NCO we would have hung out with. You know that that's not what we would deem as a quality NCO. Right, we know he would be a quality NCO, so is that that NCO mentality that we, that we hold in high esteem? is that quality of being that level of, you know, dedicated NCO? is that, like, like, the thing that makes us that? is that also what makes us be able to get over these almost life threatening um challenges?

Speaker 3: 31:17

Yeah, But I think, and I'll speak for me I think my personality led me to be the NCO that I was. It was, i shit, like I've always been no nonsense. I've always been, um, you know, uh, call a spade a spade. You know, uh, candor and and things of that nature, um, and that's how I was.

Speaker 1: 31:49

Is that how you were? I like?

Speaker 2: 31:52

being, uh, uh, leading, like you know, not being first, but trying to get, to get to where I needed to be as fast as I could. Yeah, Um, striving to be the best that I could and setting the example for my soldiers.

Speaker 1: 32:10

So, I was a young airman when uh, we were soldiers came out with Mel Gibson And that whole line about being the first one off the helicopter and the last one on the helicopter resonated with me And that's how I tried to model my being an NCO was being that guy. That's like that, you know. Like you know, i'm not going to sit back and and and and and push you to do things I'm not going to do. I'm going to be right there with you. I may not always be the one at the front of the line, but I'm right there with you, shoving you along So like. So I wonder if that part of our mentality, our personality, whatever it is that made us, that made us who we are and made us good NCOs and and gave us those life experiences Like that's a key building block into why we're able to do What we were able to do before death caught us.

Speaker 2: 33:05

I don't like losing and that's losing, yeah, straight up.

Speaker 3: 33:10

And and again.

Speaker 1: 33:14

I agree with that, but I allowed myself Um so like, I think that's why I didn't commit suicide either, because it was quitting and it's essentially losing. You know, I take the L's in a lot of areas, but that was not one I wanted to take an L on. So, um, you know it, there's all kinds of reasons as to why I didn't do it, but I think that was another. that wasn't the major reason, but I think that had something to do with it. It's just, you know, I don't want to fucking lose, I don't want to quit. I've quit a lot of things and I don't like to quit. And you also have, you know, part of part of my DNA is.

Speaker 3: 33:53

You know, part of my DNA is I think I can do it Right Like I'm not a huge gambler. Um, and your, your wife can attest from my uh craps game on the ship She is a gambler.

Speaker 3: 34:11

She is a gambler, but I'm not a huge gambler. Because it it Because there's too much chance, right? But I will always bet on my skill set, i will always bet on my, i will always bet on me, right? Uh, no matter what it is, um, i'm always, you know, you always think you can, you know, you think, well, i can roller skate until you get up on you get up on roller skates and you fall to your ass real quick. Like it's one of those things like, yeah, i'll always bet on myself. So, but there was again, there was a a year and a half, a two year period that I gave up on myself And, um, you know, that is a really regrettable time for me And and that's what kept me at the bottom of a bottle.

Speaker 1: 35:09

Did you feel like you ever gave up on yourself Right, or did you feel like you were always in control until you weren't? I'd say I was in control until I wasn't.

Speaker 2: 35:20

So that I bet, bet on myself, I can do this, no problem.

Speaker 1: 35:25

And then you fucking I don't know what the term is fucking bust until you busted. And then you're like, oh fuck, oh shit, yeah, i mean, but yeah, i mean I don't know what the term is, but I'm not sure.

Speaker 3: 35:39

But, yeah, I mean, but mine, you know it, it it took me to one day, right, You know no one, you know I didn't. I no longer had a wife that said get your shit together. I know you know. Now what she would do is she would tell me Hey, you need, you need medication, You need therapy, You need and all this shit.

Speaker 3: 36:09

And and at the time I'm like I'm not doing none of that shit, Right, Like I'm not doing none of it because you're not going to change the way you are. Like you want me to go get medicated so I can be numb to your bullshit, Right, I'm like, so if and I'm like I will go get medicated I will go to therapy. If you admit you pushed my fucking buttons, Oh, I don't push them. You know what I mean. Like fuck. Like you know, when she's like you're fucking triggered, all the time, I'm like, yeah, no shit. Like you push every fucking button I got, Oh, no, You know what I mean. And I'm like it does no good for me to go to therapy and for someone to tell me, Hey, you're fucked up when this happens, Okay, You're fucked up when that happens, Okay, And then I go home and those two things happen all the fucking time because she's pushing my fucking button.

Speaker 2: 37:10

All right.

Speaker 3: 37:12

I'm like so I will absolutely do my 50% and I will go get fucking therapy and I will go get on any medication that they deem I need to be on. But you, if I don't change my environment, or in my environment, don't change all that. All that medication is going to do is numb me to this bullshit. And now, could I lived another 10 years, 20 years in that situation, medicated and fucking? Yeah, probably, but you know it, it wouldn't have been live in my life. And so I'm like well, let me get the fuck out of this situation. And I did.

Speaker 3: 38:00

And then, when the toxic environment that I was in oh, by the way, that I helped create was no more Okay, now I went to therapy. Now, you know, now, and that's what put me here, because I wasn't in that toxic environment and now I have a support system which helps. So when I do have those those times where I self isolate or things of that nature, there's an understanding. And she don't take it personal and you know it's, it's a. We're all adjusted to our new norm.

Speaker 2: 38:51

Yeah, because the support system is a big part of it. Yeah, and you know the change in your environment because I had to change my, my whole environment around man, my friends, my circle my let me rephrase that my alleged friends that I used to run with. they were not my friends. They were drinking buddies, because when I quit drinking they were no longer around.

Speaker 1: 39:20

My dad went through the same thing when he quit They just they disappeared Never stopped by.

Speaker 2: 39:27

No phone calls. Yep, I was dead to him because there's no longer a good time. Sarge at the bar, drop and three, four hundred dollars. Yeah, You know what I mean. So now I've got like you know I got good friends about two Right And a dog And you guys.

Speaker 3: 39:47

yeah, my dog, And you know, that's all I need?

Speaker 2: 39:49

I need my fucking dog and I need my wife. I need the people, my house, that's all I need. Fuck the rest of them.

Speaker 1: 39:57

You guys ever, you guys ever hear. Uh, do you know who Joey Diaz is? He's a standup comic. He's got this line where you don't need 20 people, you need three motherfuckers. That's it. And you can take over a country with three motherfuckers, but that's it.

Speaker 3: 40:13

I mean, it's, it's. It's one of those things where And Again, don't want to sound hypocritical, don't want to sound hypocritical Um, i drink a bottle a day for four or five days a week, for a year and a half And, uh, and that's, this is not me beating my chest Right And it damn near killed me. I mean, it Not help maybe physically, but it. It took me to a point where I was sitting at the kitchen table one night with a pistol, flipping a fucking coin, debating on killing myself, i mean, and the great thing about it is I didn't let fate take over And I talked myself off that ledge. But you know, from that day I said I will not let alcohol run my life anymore And I quit drinking for a long time. I drink now. So again, i don't want to sound like a hypocrite, um, but I don't have. I don't have the addicted personality, right? Um, i quit things all the time. Cold turkey Uh, i quit Mountain Dew, cold turkey, and I haven't drank a Mountain Dew since October last year.

Speaker 1: 41:48

And you're like fucking mountain bro, i, i drank 15 fucking Mountain Dews a day, so So much so that you refuse to drink water.

Speaker 3: 41:58

Yes, yes, I, i didn't drink water for many, many years of my life. Um, but just saying, but on a whim, just quit drinking Mountain Dew. Um, because, again, you know, i'm drinking a whole lot of sugar every day. But I'm just saying. That is my mentality. Um, i'm a flash in a pan guy, you know I mean I'm a well, today, i'm a fucking quit drinking and then quit drinking, you know I mean I have, i have 200 bottles of whiskey here in my bar and they're not open. You know what I mean. So it's, i collect bottles to prove to myself that whiskey does not have a hold on me, that it once does. This is, this is my testament to myself.

Speaker 1: 42:56

With the way the alcohol took over your life. Could you be and could you have something like this in your house?

Speaker 2: 43:02

I have one bottle in my house now. I had two and I donated one for a charity auction, so I do have one in the house And there's times I think I do need to get rid of it.

Speaker 1: 43:20

Yeah, My dad's got a Bud Light can. He's had on his shelf since the early nineties that. that's his reminder that he quit and he consciously makes that decision every day to to not be.

Speaker 3: 43:36

And he gave me a 40 year, 40 year old bottle of soju that he had from Korea.

Speaker 1: 43:42

That had never been opened, that we opened.

Speaker 3: 43:45

The bottle was almost as fucking old as me. Yeah, The thing that I have in my bar. I mean, we opened it and tasted it and it's like fucking turpentine.

Speaker 2: 43:55

I mean I wake up. I have nightmares about drinking.

Speaker 3: 43:58

Yeah, i mean yeah, and the great thing, and I think the difference now, the difference in my drinking is I'm not drinking to kill anything, i'm not drinking to forget anything, i'm not drinking to numb anything which makes me drink a whole lot less. And and that's where you know I can, i taught myself how to social drink again And and I'm sure there's there's people that know us, that you know, say, bro, what you do is not social drinking, but but still, i mean it's. It's one of those things where I'm not, you know, i'm not drinking to kill pain.

Speaker 1: 44:51

Well, and you're not sitting in here. And the reason why you call it social drinking is everybody's over here, right, and we're all drinking. Well, i don't, but everybody's drinking together.

Speaker 3: 45:02

Right.

Speaker 1: 45:03

Whereas it's not you sitting down here on a Saturday night by yourself, just pounding them as fast as you can.

Speaker 3: 45:08

Right, but, and also, there's never any pressure, there's never any Well, but this one won't never Right. And but you got to know yourself, he knows his, you know John knows his self and he's like Hey, bro, you know I'm not coming to go, understood, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 45:29

Like you know, we're at the point now that it's it's not ever, you know there's no expectation, right, and, as your brothers, we understand that there are certain things that you're just. That's not a situation you're going to put yourself in, right, so there's never an expectation to even.

Speaker 3: 45:50

Like I said, man, if I had a hundred pennies I'll bet 99 every fucking time on what John's going to do.

Speaker 1: 45:58

And then Cause we just know And and but you've built that, You've built that equity, that this is how I am, This is what I do, This is how I do it, And so there's no you don't. You don't surprise us in that way. Where you surprise people is when you're at your house and you're in your environment and you're comfortable and you get to be you. When people get to hear that, it fucks them up because you know right, Like I said, my, my wife, heard you on the headset and she's like I've never heard him say five fucking words and like he's just nonstop talking and she's like who the fuck is that?

Speaker 1: 46:39

But that's how you surprise people is when you get to be comfortable and get to be you. But as far as like that other stuff, you are always consistently. You know, this is what I am, this is what I do, this is how I do it. You either like it or I'll loan wolf that shit All right.

Speaker 3: 46:57

So with are you? because you are a, a partaker of the marijuana, and so our does that ever?

Speaker 2: 47:15

do you ever fear that's a gateway again, or I do not, so they call that California sober Right. Actually I just found that out the other day.

Speaker 1: 47:28

But you you treat it more like like if it was federally legal, the VA would prescribe it to you. You would treat it just like any other bed the VA gives you. Correct, it's not. It's not so much for you as a is a is a crutch as more as it is a treatment plan, correct.

Speaker 2: 47:49

I'd say I actually probably micro dose, Right, Because I don't smoke it every day. Um, generally I smoke it prior to going to bed. Um, so yeah, I mean I don't sit down, smoke blunts or bowls.

Speaker 3: 48:03

Right, i don't smoke during the day. It's all medicinal, right Yeah?

Speaker 2: 48:08

I smoke a little bit at night and helps me sleep, takes away my leg pain, my back pain, hip pain and I can get four or five hours of sleep without constant turning and tossing and again.

Speaker 1: 48:21

Washington. It's not a fucking schedule on narcotic, it is a medicine. You dickheads.

Speaker 3: 48:28

Uh, yeah, and and that's like for me, i don't I don't particularly get high from from, uh, you know the stuff uh that you know we've smoked together and and you know old snoop dog all out, Um, fucking. You know I don't I don't particularly get elevated, um, but the pain you know, like when we were uh in Wyoming and uh old cornbread gave me some of his get right And uh, you know, first time I ever smoked was in Wyoming, in in 21. And he's like, hey, this, this here is medicinal, it's for pain. I'm like he's going to take my pain away.

Speaker 3: 49:22

And, bro, that day I needed Chrissy's help to bring my knee to my chest cause my hip hurts so damn bad. And uh, next day I'm doing squats, i'm like, oh shit, we're, we're onto something here, boys. There's a reason it's called get right, right, we're onto something here, boys. And uh, from that point on, i was, i was sold. I'm like, okay, if you know all the, the shots I take, the, the, the pain meds I take, it don't do what that does. And so again, you know, if, if it helps and you can do it, um, in moderation, like you said, micro doses, you know, um, yeah, then then fucking do it. And you know so. We're not, we're not sitting here saying don't drink, don't do drugs, don't do. we're saying, you know, do them for the right reasons, Don't do it to kill pain, don't do it to forget anything, know your limits.

Speaker 1: 50:28

You know what I mean, like you said, one was too many and a hundred was never enough.

Speaker 1: 50:32

Know your limits, yeah, And my parents were really into drugs and alcohol. My mom, you know, she was pregnant with me And so, coming from you know, seeing parents what drugs and alcohol did to their lives, i went the complete. So I could have used that as an excuse to get high and fucked up all the time or do what. I didn't use it as a complete like. It's something to go to complete opposite. I've drank. I'm 40, i'll be 45 this year. I've drank five times uh in my life. Um, i've never utilized uh drugs. Um, till this past summer we were in Louisville. I had a half of an edible cookie and, um, i just kind of it just relaxed me, It made me feel better.

Speaker 1: 51:19

Now my wife will tell you that I was really fucked up and it's because I asked a question, but in my head it sounded one way and it come out a different way. We got back over to the hotel and, um, my fucking pupils were just bar and I pulled my eyelid down and I and the question I asked was is my eye working? What I was trying to say was are my pupils fucked up? Like I know what I wanted to ask, but it come out is my eye working? So then my wife told everybody I was so fucked up I was asking if my eyes worked or not. I'm like bitch. I know my eyes working. I was just asking about my pupils.

Speaker 1: 51:55

But that opened my eyes to the possibility of utilizing because I'm I'm I'm deathly afraid of pain medication, deathly afraid because of there is a proven genetic component to addiction and I'm so afraid of alcohol and pain medication and stuff like that. But my the reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet is I'm so there's other aspects of my life that I don't know how it would impact. You know like I coach special Olympics and I'm my son's sole caregiver, and you know I don't know like I've been told through my special Olympics coordinator that it wouldn't be an issue. But when parents find out, you don't know how they're going to react, and so that's really the big reason why I haven't pulled the trigger on it yet. And I wouldn't and I'm not a smoker, so I wouldn't want to smoke it. It would be more like an edible or an oil or something like that I could get your card and you can go to the dispenser.

Speaker 2: 53:03

reason You can get the gummies, you can get chocolate, you get cookies, you can get the tinctures and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 53:09

Yeah, so like I'm, i'm, i'm almost there. I've made a phone call a couple of times and they didn't answer when I made the phone call. So then I was like, all right, well, maybe I'm not, that's a sign.

Speaker 1: 53:21

Yeah, you know so it's just because of the, i don't have a problem with marijuana. My problem is the historical data of my grandfather, my father, my mom. Like I've already got enough fucking issues. The last thing I need to do is add that in on top of all my other shit. So I think that's really what it is. It's just fear. It plain and simple, it's fear. So don't don't be a scared bitch, well it ain't it, ain't that.

Speaker 3: 53:57

but again, if you can find alternatives, right. So I mean, turn, turn every stone until if the last one is this, if this is the only thing that worked, okay, then we have to do it in moderations, You know you have to, you know, mitigate the risks, you know, and and things like that. So, last thing, and we'll put a bow on this part, So 20, you know, hindsight being 2020. Do you love? do you love, like or hate your life now compared to nine years ago?

Speaker 2: 54:47

My life is a hell of a lot better now than what it was nine years ago.

Speaker 3: 54:51

And.

Speaker 2: 54:51

I have more money in the bank.

Speaker 1: 54:56

But he blames us for buying a fucking controller in a headset, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 55:00

But yeah, i mean, i didn't realize how much money I spent on alcohol, right, i knew how much money I spent on other shit Because I knew how much cocaine was. I didn't know how much money because it's my good time buddies, right, because I wanted everybody to have a fucking good time, yeah, and you know, cash out to bars fucking three, four hundred fucking dollars, yeah, you know Jager bombs are fucking six bucks a crack, right? You know what I mean, yeah.

Speaker 3: 55:31

Oh, but I do.

Speaker 2: 55:31

But that was. You know. That was nine years ago. They might be more than that.

Speaker 3: 55:34

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:36

And you know. So I mean, i was dropping fucking, you know, and I'd drink at home. I'd drink, you know, i'd drink a fifth of Jim Beaman to house, or an 18 pack of what you know Bushlight is my beer, don't hate you on me And and, or combination of those two.

Speaker 2: 55:59

And then I go out, yeah, and then I get good fucked up like damn, i need something to pick me up. That's when I go get the blow, yeah, and I just pulled you right back out, you know, grabs you by the collar, put you back up on your feet, yep.

Speaker 1: 56:13

It's a it's a vicious cycle of upper, downer, upper, downer, upper downer, but yeah, so yeah, my life is a hell of a lot better.

Speaker 2: 56:20

My bike, yeah, i mean, it's a day and night. That's good I don't regret it one bit. I mean my, my health is much better, my family life is much better. You know, my kids are like damn we. They don't like me As long as my wife's not like me when my direct. My kids don't like me, you know, and everybody likes me.

Speaker 1: 56:41

It's coming from experience. It's tough to be a kid when your parents are doing stuff like that. It's really is hard, because not only can you see what it's doing to them, it's also really fucking embarrassing. Yeah, really embarrassing.

Speaker 3: 56:58

It's, it's. It's stealing their fun. It's stealing their fun as a kid. So let's, let's transition, let's pivot, if you will, the trigger, the 2023 trigger word pivot and move over to your previous occupation as a veteran service officer And I only bring this up because we've had, you know, many in depth conversations about some of the trials and tribulations at your office. And just as a public service announcement is, you know, as we've said before, we'll say it again you have to take control of your life, you have to take control of your career, you have to take control of your VA disability claim and be responsible and accountable.

Speaker 3: 58:05

Yeah And uh. You know what you can't do is walk into a you know veteran service officer or office and ask the officer to find you things that don't exist, or find you percentage points, because you think I think I'm a hundred percent, so make me you know what I mean, and it it don't work that way.

Speaker 1: 58:31

I identify as a woman, so I don't have a uterus, so I need 30% for not having a uterus.

Speaker 3: 58:37

Right, um, and, and you know, the easiest way to get a hundred percent is be a hundred percent. Shocker, be a hundred percent. That's that's the easiest way that I know of And you know I'm a hundred percent. So, um, yeah, and, unlike you know, my ex-wife's like he's a hundred percent cause he lied Like it don't work that way.

Speaker 1: 59:05

It's hard to lie to that.

Speaker 3: 59:06

It's, it fucking don't work. A lot of people lie.

Speaker 1: 59:10

It don't work that way It's a lot easier to get zero than it is a hundred.

Speaker 3: 59:14

She also. She also said um, you know, i got a purple heart cause I lied. Um, i got a bronze star, cause I lied. Um, i'm a pretty good liar. The fucking my whole life is a lie. Um, but yeah, it just don't work that way. Um, um, so if you, if you will give us a you know, broad strokes, you don't have to tell us any dirty details.

Speaker 2: 59:41

All right, uh, so I was a veteran service officer for roughly two years. Um, so the thing is, i was a veteran service officer for about two years. So the thing that most veterans don't know is you have to have three things to get uh service connected disability, um, and that is an event. And service which means you, i, you went to sick, call Um. If you're an actual garter reservist, um, you have a line of duty, incident Um, then you need a current diagnosis of the said condition and you need a medical opinion. To get the medical opinion you would get that from. Uh, if you filed a claim, you would get scheduled for a compensation and pension exam and that would come from the examiner who's doing your uh the exam? Uh, those three things will get you service connection for said disability, whether it be tonight is hearing loss, knee strain, whatever it may be, um.

Speaker 2: 1:00:43

So a lot of times veterans come in and they say I want to claim. We'll just use this as an example Um soldier is an 82nd airborne, jumped out of planes for three years, um, infantry soldier. This is a great example. Never went to sick call one time when they was in Um, but we all know their needs are probably fucked up. They commend claim because as a service officer you can't not file claim for a veteran Um. They want to file claim. You file a claim. We don't adjudicate, we advocate. I am not, they are not a service officer anymore, right? So service officers are to advocate, not adjudicate, so they can. They have to file a claim for the veteran Um, so they'll file the claim. Uh, the VA has their service treatment records.

Speaker 2: 1:01:41

They'll look through there and see if it's uh, they'll look and see that they go to sick.

Speaker 2: 1:01:46

Call. They'll see it. Um, they'll say, okay, they didn't do it. They'll, they'll make the decision. Do we schedule an exam or don't we? And generally they, they still will.

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

This is the big VA doing this, not the service officer. So they'll schedule the exam and they'll say, okay, they'll schedule x-rays, perhaps an MRI, um, and they'll go through the exam. The doctor says, okay, yeah, he's got, uh, some crepitus in there, he's got some arthritis and some knee strain. So they'll go through and they'll deny it And they'll say, okay, the reason for the denial is there was no service treatment and service. And then I'll say, okay, this is a VA saying, yes, you do have a disability, you have knee strain, with arthritis, but we're denying it because you never treated in service, for it Right, Makes perfect sense. But this a lot of times they're denying because there's no treatment in service.

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

The VA is not the bad guy. So they denied it. They told you you have a disability, now you just have to link it into service So you can get buddy statements, just because. So they're not killing you, telling you not to fix it. You know they're telling you what you need to do to fix it So they can say Hey, john, can you write a statement saying you saw me jump out of that plane and hit, uh, this LZ and saw me twist my knee on this date? So there's always a way to fix it. That'd be a supplemental claim to get that fixed.

Speaker 1: 1:03:27

And then I know that I've heard a lot of guys say well, i never went to sick call because I couldn't, or I couldn't do this or I couldn't do that. They know, but they have to provide, there has to be some type of black and white documentation that says that it happened. So if you don't have it in your treatment record, then you need to go those other avenues. You know, correct.

Speaker 2: 1:03:46

Yeah, buddy statements, witness statements Yeah, so there has to be some. You need those three things to get it, unless it's a presumptive condition for serving in areas like Vietnam. Um, vietnam veterans, uh, frazier and orange exposure, um, or under this new pack that I call for serving Southwest I call them the stinking stands. Right, right, um, but yeah, under this new stuff like that, um, there's presumptive conditions, then you don't even need uh sick or anything like that, it's just uh, i had.

Speaker 3: 1:04:20

I had a great platoon sergeant that told me a, if you're going to stay around, you know long enough. Take that last year. You know when you know your ETS and or when you know you're retiring, take that last year and get all your bumps and bruises and your always document Right, And and that for for those veterans that are still active, or you know in the guard or or whatever it may be. You know, yeah, it's hard. When I was in the third ID, we called it the Marne express and and it was the train that just kept choo-choo and and it was hard to jump off the Marne express and go to sick call and hell, i tell you, i got, i got injured in 2010,. Right, 13 years We talked about that, um, off air, 13 years.

Speaker 3: 1:05:16

Um, to this day, march 28th, uh, 2000. 10, uh, i broke a vertebrae in my neck and, uh, i didn't get surgery. I didn't get surgery on my neck until 2014. Oh, by the way, i left the third entry division in 2013, right, so there's there, there's a correlation there, and I'm one of those guys that you know I didn't. Again, it goes back to I didn't want to take a knee, i didn't want to come out of the fight um and um, but I was hurting and that those three years very uh, it really um hindered my, my health, um, but I did take that last year I was in the military and got everything annotated, everything, all, all the, all the things that um either a I went to sick, call for and was still had residual, residual effects. You know, i have a uh nice knot on my hand, uh, cause I broke my hands, um, and just just say, uh, just a reeval. You know just read looking.

Speaker 3: 1:06:41

And when I got out, when I retired, i had zero issue. You know, like, i told you, when I went to um Columbus, columbus, va, and I went into their uh claims office and you know I had my, my medical records tabbed and it was tabbed in correlation with, you know, the, the spot on the on the the sheet where I had, you know, the claim I wanted and and all in in in that, guy's like man, like you, make my job easy And I'm, and I said, well, the way I approach it is helping you, is helping me, right, right, so by by by doing some of that work myself and not expecting you, right, a veteran yourself, most, um, veteran service officers are veterans, right? So you know you're asking a veteran to do your shit for you. And no, i'm like, well, i know, i know my history, so I know where. Well done to tab my medical records, took them in there, dropped them, boom, you know, within within 90 days I had my first claim within.

Speaker 3: 1:08:01

You know, and, uh, i'm a little different. I I took mine in chunks, you know what I mean. Like, i took these three ailments and and, and, you know, went and got 60% for that. And then you know cause? I was working. I was working another job, not not that I thought I was a hundred percent, but you know I'm like well, i don't need, i don't want to sit around at home and and.

Speaker 1: 1:08:30

Well, cause there's also a misunderstanding. Cause it was me, you know, if I didn't. So when I got out I didn't get a copy of my medical records. I only had, like eight weeks after I made the decision, ETS, cause I didn't stay until retirement. I didn't get to go through taps I don't know what they call it in the army, the Air Force, they called it taps transition assistance, Um. So I didn't get to go through taps or anything like that, Cause it was just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I was out.

Speaker 1: 1:08:54

And then the first year after I got out, I didn't want to go to the VA or anything like that because I was like, oh, I want to do this, I want to do this and I don't want to be labeled as disabled, And then I can't do this and I can't do this and I can't do this. Now, fast forward, you know it's. I've been out 17 years now. Yeah, 17,. I've been out 17 years. I don't have a copy of my medical records. So I I I don't know. So, like, I know that I stopped breathing a lot when I was um in my early 20s, cause the wife liked to tell me all the time, but I never went and got diagnosed with sleep apnea. I have horrible fucking sleep apnea now, but because I weigh 350 pounds, they attribute my sleep apnea to my weight, where I've had it since I weighed 180 pounds. But because I never went and and got it, I don't really have a buddy statement. You know somebody to say, Hey, motherfucker, you, as well as some breathing I can't get, or I don't see a path forward for service.

Speaker 1: 1:09:50

Connecting my sleep apnea from when I was in my early 20s, Right, Um, but not having my medical records and not going through transition assistance and all that I had. I had so many misunderstandings or such a lack of knowledge or not being able to go in and say boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I just basically had to throw it at the wall and hopefully that when they went through my treatment records from when I was active, they found those things And they did in 2015. I filed in May and I had my 70% and everything done by September of that year, which at the time, everybody was telling me it was taking years to get things done. To get it done that quickly was just fucking mind blowing to me. But it was because everything I submitted for they easily found in my treatment records.

Speaker 3: 1:10:36

Yeah, I think the services and again I can only speak for the army They do a poor job. Poor job of. I mean you know we do um transition assistance in in in the army. I mean it's it's a week long deal Um resume writing and all that. So that but the medical aspect. I mean I had surgery um fucking four, three months on my neck and uh, so I mean you can file a claim before you even get out of active duty.

Speaker 2: 1:11:16

Yeah, that's a benefit delivery, a discharge, BDD claim right Which if any active duty members. Listen to this I highly encourage you to do, because, uh, you can start that six months out. It's the window of opportunity. That's six months to 90 days. Once you hit the 89 days, you are done on that. Um, because once you, if you do that BDD claim, uh, once your ETS is done, you submit your DD two, 14 and your retirement check starts and so does your VA disability Right.

Speaker 3: 1:11:51

And, but they, they didn't want to evaluate me because of my surgery. And they're like, well, we don't know how much mobility you have or it will have, or things that add nature. And I'm like, yeah, i get you, not a problem, and I waited, um, i waited to after, but then she also my, my, um, my um counselor, um, hold on, i'll think about it. And um, um, the lady that did my my, uh, she had my file. She was, uh, the word escapes me but uh, she, she put all my appointments and and, uh, she arranged all my appointments and scheduled all my appointments and and, uh, she was like a caregiver, um, and why can't I think of the word Um? but anyways, she wanted me to um get med boarded.

Speaker 3: 1:13:00

And I'm like, well, my, like, i'm at 22 years, like, uh, i'm good, i'm good with her, you know, with a retirement. She's like, listen, med board will get you your percentage um quicker. And I'm like, i'm not worried about the financial part. All right, you know what I mean. I'm worried about the acknowledgement of my injuries that I sustained, as long as they're documented, that's. you know, that's all that um mattered to me at at uh, um at the time. So, can you, can you speak on? can you speak on the percentages You know, like um the zero, the, the 30 to 50, the, the VA math?

Speaker 2: 1:13:47

So there are different percentages for each disability Um and you can find those under the CFR 38, code of federal regulations 38, the book C, right, subpart B, oh Of a CFR 38. So just because you feel that you deserve a higher rating, um, it may not warrant it under that Um, you may be capped out. Um, you may be capped out. Um, you may be capped out, um for that certain disability. Um, just because you feel again, you fuck your feelings. Um, hate to say it, but that's what it is. Um, it just might be tapped out. You know, tonight is or to knit us depend how you want to say it. It's 10% max Or you hear it.

Speaker 2: 1:14:42

Um I'll say it, i'll say it the way you hear it Right, that's all you're getting for it. Um, that's all it gets. Um, so each disability has a certain percentage and you can look that up. So we use lower back for one. We'll just go into that one. Um, that goes off there. So there's different shit in there. It goes off of Accumulative range of motion, it goes off of just Degrees And it goes off of whichever one is most advantageous to the veteran. So if you've been 30 degrees or say 32 degrees, that's more than 30, right, that puts you into the 20%, if I remember. Right, just throw it. But if you, then it goes off of for flexation, rotation back and that number comes up to something Also, and that's put you over that number, but it's still put you just your four flexation alone to put you in like in a 20% zone but you can look all those things up.

Speaker 2: 1:15:50

Safe It's a knee disability or headaches or PTSD or whatever your disability may be. If you want to put in for an increase in it, you can look at that. Just go to Google, type in whatever your disability is, just put in PTSD, cfr 38 for PTSD, it'll pull it up. It'll have the criteria for 10 or 0, 30, 50, 70 and 100. Now I will also say if you, if you want to put in for an increase on any disability three, there's three things that can happen You can get the increase, you can stay the same or you can be decreased. That's always a risk that can happen just because you feel you want an increase. You can be decreased.

Speaker 3: 1:16:43

And it also opens you up to all of your disabilities. Correct.

Speaker 2: 1:16:49

Yes, they can also check if they want to reevaluate you. For anything else They can't.

Speaker 1: 1:16:55

But if they service connect, can they ever service disconnect?

Speaker 2: 1:17:00

As long as you hold that disability for 10 years, they cannot sever service connection. Okay, now, once you held it for 20 years, it can never be severed. That's got to be held for 20 years, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:14

So, because, like when in 2015, they service connected my migraines because I did get seen for those but I got 0% because I wasn't having the prostrating I don't remember all the garbage but it wasn't impacting my day to day life Because I wasn't having them very often In 2020, they got so bad that I was starting to loss of balance, like all kinds of things, and so I applied for an increase and they got increased because, again, that CFR like when you type in your disability, you'll get a whole bunch of lawyers and their descriptions of it, but that's not the one you want.

Speaker 1: 1:17:53

You want that 38 CFR, yeah, and it gives you black and white Right. So this is what's happening and you can prove it. This is what the VA will give you. But if you think that you're doing this, but when they evaluate you, you get this. This is what you get. So I mean it. That's like the best piece of advice that anybody could get is looking up that 38 CFR and looking at their specific disability and how the VA words it, and then, like you said, the percentages of whether they cap out or not.

Speaker 3: 1:18:23

Well, i would say this if you went in for headaches and they were checking your prostate, that's what you said right.

Speaker 1: 1:18:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were prostating my prostrator, prostrating my prostator.

Speaker 2: 1:18:36

But I would say for anyone that's going in for an increase you know, look at that, look at CFR 38 and also have some credit city of care for the disability that you're putting in for an increase for That's always going to help you. Just don't go on there. Well, I know, Um, but if you don't have any treatment other than your last rating, you're really not going to have the leg to stand on. Not telling you you can't put in for it, I'm just telling you. The odds are you're more likely than not probably going to stay the same.

Speaker 3: 1:19:14

But it goes back to being actively involved in your healthcare. Correct And uh, you know. Again, i'm a hundred percent and I still go to all. I've been active in the VA for for years, um, because a, i want to get better, i want to feel better, i want to live better, i want a better quality of life And, um, and to do that and understand that each time, each time you go for headaches or your back, you know there is a process that the VA is going to take and they're going to do the less, the least evasive, um, form a treatment first And cause most people like, well, if I go in there and I get surgery, that's going to guarantee a certain percentage points.

Speaker 1: 1:20:14

That's false, yes, correct, yeah, um, so surgeries- you know, if the surgery increases your range of motion and boom, you're going to get a temporary right.

Speaker 2: 1:20:23

I mean you'll get a temporary hundred percent for a period of time.

Speaker 1: 1:20:28

Right, i think I was, because I was in the CFR last night.

Speaker 2: 1:20:32

I think one of the things I read is most of them it's for three months after it was longer and they just had just changed, like a surgery on a knee used to be. I think it was a year, and then it has just changed it down to six months or three months, i can't remember it. It just changed right before.

Speaker 3: 1:20:46

Right. So I mean you have to, you have to take that in an account as well. Like everybody wants to fast forward again. Uh, having a broken vertebrae in my neck, letting it, letting it go untreated, uh, now, since I've I I have a fusion um C, three through five. But the things, the things on, you know when, when you do that, they'll tell you you know, the vertebrae or the, the um, the areas to the, the, the top or the bottom of that effective areas will become affected. You know, uh, especially when you have a fusion, you lose mobility in that, in that um, in that set of um vertebrates, so the ones to the top and ones to the bottom will be affected.

Speaker 3: 1:21:49

Well, you know, three years is a long time to have a jacked up neck. Slash back, slap. You know. So I have. I have issues in my, my, my C spine, my L spine, my S spine. You know um, all because of um not getting treated. You know, initially So, um, but each time I go back right.

Speaker 3: 1:22:18

So you know it was, it was the. Let's shoot you up with. You know, um, let's, let's give you some shots, let's give you. You know, then I went to let me give you an epidural, let me get you know, you know, and each time it has progressed to surgery, right As as my lower back did. And then, when I went back, for you know, i had some pain in in between my shoulder blades and I'm like, and they're like, okay, well, let's give you shots. And even though the shots, the epidurals, all those things didn't work for my neck, they didn't work for my shoulder, they haven't worked for my lower back, i still got to go take the shot, because you're going to document that shit And and um, well, and on top of that you might get lucky, right, you know?

Speaker 1: 1:23:12

that's the whole reason. I don't I I'm a candidate for surgery on my back. I don't want surgery on my back because I have mobility. It ain't great mobility, but I have mobility, and when I get that surgery, i run the risk of it helping or making my mobility worse, and and so I would. Just when it gets to the point that I can't walk, okay, then you can put me under the knife, but until then I'll try all the other goofy shit you want me to try.

Speaker 3: 1:23:36

And oh, by the way, in 10 years you'll have surgery again. You know you'll have surgery. in five to 10 years You'll have surgery again.

Speaker 2: 1:23:43

I don't know anyone that's had just one back surgery Right, exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:23:47

Right. So it's, it's and that's, and that's where I'm at. I am prolonging that, that 10 year span, as long as I can, and, and probably when I have back surgery I'll also have a fucking trike. I'm just. I'm just saying Side car.

Speaker 2: 1:24:08

Side car. Side car, yep Side car.

Speaker 1: 1:24:11

Low, cooler than a trike. Yeah, and you can take, you know, the little one with you.

Speaker 3: 1:24:15

I'm just saying but yeah, i mean I think that that correlation there, but is there any? is there any other myths or a little?

Speaker 1: 1:24:28

drawn out on that one Myths.

Speaker 3: 1:24:32

I that came from a prostate. Is there any? is there any other? you know things that you ran across.

Speaker 2: 1:24:42

So so the when you're getting disability from the VA, they're compensating you for the way the disability impacts your daily life. Okay, i don't want to say that they don't give a fuck about the injury, but they don't give a fuck about the injury.

Speaker 3: 1:25:02

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:25:04

Because it's how it impacts your functionality. That's what you're being compensated for. So that's what it is. It's not for your tonight, it's. it's how it impacts you know it's your hearing loss how it impacts your daily life.

Speaker 2: 1:25:15

That's why there's 0%, because you know you can get 0% for your knee string or your ankle, whatever it may be, because it's really not impacting your daily life, right? So that's when a service officer would do a claim and write these statements for the claimant. It's how it's impacting your daily life. If you have little kids, well, i can't go to the playground with my small child. I can't do this with my small child. I can't carry my baby. I can't. This is how it impacts your daily life. I can't go on vacation. I can't go on drives. I can't go on family vacation because I can't ride in a car for eight hours or go to.

Speaker 2: 1:25:57

Virginia Beach or 12 hours to go to Florida with my family, because my back's stacked up my, my sciatica and everything else You know. So that's impacting your functional. You know your functional use of your limbs and everything like that. So that's what the VA is compensating you for, not for the actual injury.

Speaker 1: 1:26:17

And that's where the the the migraine thing for me is they, they. they acknowledge that I had it, they service connected it, but it's not impacting your daily life. So that's where the prostrating comes in. Yes, so take your goose egg and then when? your prostate gets involved. You know up your percent. I was just checking because you know you just want to check the prostate. I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:26:40

I mean we're buddies, but I don't know where. That much All right. So I mean, like I said, a lot of veterans don't have their service, treatment records or medical records.

Speaker 2: 1:26:48

If they've ever filed a claim with the VA, they can give it to service officer um ask them to, because once they file a claim the service officer can get into VA system and get them print them off front and back. Sometimes there's a lot of them. There could be a lot, depends on how much they went to sick or not.

Speaker 2: 1:27:10

Um, or, they can request them from the VA themselves. It might take a minute to get them from the VA, but they will get them Right. Um, yeah, i've tried. I've tried to request them from the VA and that's not a very easy process to navigate, but the service officer can get them. Um, i don't know, i didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 1:27:29

So it depends how many there are if they're willing to print them off.

Speaker 2: 1:27:33

Um, because they can't put them on anything.

Speaker 1: 1:27:37

Um, that's just, it's a no, go Right.

Speaker 2: 1:27:38

They can print them off, though, um you are your own best advocate. Um service officers see a lot of people throughout the day Right Um, so if they can, print off your, your service treatment records for you.

Speaker 2: 1:27:53

you can comb through stuff You might have went to sick on basic training for your ankles and not remembered it. I mean that's, you know there's going to be some stuff in there You might not ever remember going to sick off for. so you can comb through there and find some stuff that it might be some stuff in there. You don't remember and like damn and make a new claim.

Speaker 3: 1:28:15

Uh, i think, do you um? what's your opinion on? you know, like uh, dav or VFWs advocating for Uh, i don't really have.

Speaker 2: 1:28:33

Uh, i know the ones that I dealt with up in Cleveland. The VFW were great. Um, i never really dealt with the DAV guys. Um but I know the ones up in Cleveland.

Speaker 3: 1:28:43

The VFWs were rock stars, Okay, Um because a lot of times they they'll advocate on a veterans bucket but uh behalf um for claims Um what?

Speaker 1: 1:28:59

what? I can't remember the the term they use um for because, like, when you file your claim, you have to power of attorney, Yeah, So like when I did mine, I just used the VFW there and shocked him, which doesn't fucking exist anymore, Well and but I mean, like I really didn't have any interaction with them because I tried to do everything myself.

Speaker 2: 1:29:17

Well, see, and that's so when you assign them as a POA, the power of attorney, um, that's not a local organization. These guys are. When I use guys, it's the organization.

Speaker 2: 1:29:32

Um, they're working up at the federal voting in Cleveland. So it's not any local organizations Cambridge, zanesville, odover, whatever these guys are up in the federal voting in Cleveland working Right. Um, and they generally um get involved when you're filing a supplemental claim, when your claims go to the border. Veterans appeals um, and a court of appeals for veterans claims Um, that's generally when they get involved.

Speaker 1: 1:29:59

So your initial stuff like that, they they're just. Unless it gets hung up, it kind of just goes through the system.

Speaker 2: 1:30:05

Yeah, that's when these guys get involved. I mean, they can file your original claim.

Speaker 1: 1:30:11

Uh, generally they don't um they're the heavy hitters.

Speaker 2: 1:30:15

Yeah, i mean, as I said, i've worked with the VFW a couple of times up in Cleveland for supplemental claims in their rocks.

Speaker 1: 1:30:21

I was.

Speaker 2: 1:30:21

I never worked with the DAV guys, um, never worked the American Legion guys, Other than sentence stuff up to. went to the board of veterans appeals Again. uh, I am not a veteran service officer. These are my opinions only, Of course.

Speaker 3: 1:30:35

And we and we have, we have the disclaimer, uh on the the beginning of this uh podcast, that we're not medical professionals and our opinions are that and uh of our own And uh, so, but you know, it's good to have some insight. It's good to you know, um, because I know a lot of our. you know, friends and members of our chapter go to you and know um, you're going, you're going to give it to them straight and and and ain't gonna be well, you can, you know we don't know what we don't know, right, right.

Speaker 1: 1:31:16

And so it's nice to know somebody that can at least, even if you can't give us the answers 38 CFR you can tell us where to look to get the answer or or put us in the right direction. Because you know, a lot of times, like if there's somebody like me, they didn't get to go through T transition assistance, they didn't do all that. I don't know what the fuck they're. Or they hear all the misconceptions you know if you get a disability rating, you can't do this, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and so you just go off of. You know Barrick's lawyer, right, and she goes sideways.

Speaker 3: 1:31:45

So and yeah, and too many times people, you know, people do the, they do the big math. Well, I'm, i'm 30% here and I'm 30% there and I'm 15, you know 15, but, you know, well, that's 100%. No, that ain't 100%.

Speaker 1: 1:32:02

VA math, baby VA math.

Speaker 2: 1:32:05

Yeah, it's. Yeah, there's plenty of calculators online You can use. Va is actually got one on VAgov You can use, but I think it's. I generally say I've been VA disability calculator and the first one that pops up general, the best one, right, because the one on the VAcom it's kind of a pain in the ass. I will also say, if we're talking about that, i highly encourage all veterans to go to the VAgov and do the burn pit registry. Yes, if you have, if you served in any desert storm, afghanistan, iraq, any of those countries that if you go to the burn pit registry it'll give you what countries right on there A lot of stuff on under the PACT Act that covers that stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:32:52

Even if you don't think you have any issues, I still highly encourage you to get on there and do the burn pit. registry Stuff might pop up later on in your life.

Speaker 1: 1:33:03

And everything under the PACT Act is a presumptive. Now, correct, correct.

Speaker 3: 1:33:07

And I just, i, just I'm now going through the process because of a CT scan I just had and I have some stuff in my lungs that is part of part of the presumptive illnesses from Iraq. So we'll walk that dog.

Speaker 1: 1:33:30

Yeah, and something else I've said before. There are guys that have veterans there that have had horrible experiences at a VA care facility. I do not, i do not lessen that experience. My experiences with my VA care facilities, especially the Seabock in Zanesville Dr Zangreiser shout out, you're a rock star has been amazing, absolutely amazing Columbus with some of the specialists I get a little frustrated with them because a lot of times they see a 350 pound fat man before they even actually dig into why I'm there. But I haven't had a bad experience. I raised my hand, i served, i did what Uncle Sam wanted me to do And now that I'm broken and fallen apart, uncle Sam is doing his part to take care of me. So I can't complain Like. But I understand that there are people that have had bad experiences.

Speaker 3: 1:34:19

And your recommendation for a bad experience with a VA doctor is what.

Speaker 2: 1:34:27

Go see the patient advocate and they'll get you a new doctor. That's it.

Speaker 3: 1:34:30

I mean, we've had friends that'd be like, oh, this fucking doctor, bruh, bruh, bruh, and you're like, well, go get a new one.

Speaker 2: 1:34:37

I don't want a new one.

Speaker 3: 1:34:38

No, then quit, quit, you know what I mean. Like again, if you don't want to take control of your shit, right Like you want. You want to complain and be like I could be a hundred percent, but this fucking doctor, bruh bruh, bruh, no, it's, it's, you know. Um, each experience is what you make it. And if it's not what you want, go make it better.

Speaker 1: 1:35:04

Well and like for me, so for anybody that lives a significant distance from their care facility. I a lot of times like when I didn't have such a good experience with one of the specialists up there, you know the specialist. there's not a lot of specialists at the Columbus, you know you're kind of limited. I just have them transfer me to the community based and then I go see Genesis here in Zanesville. It's closer, it's easier, and so that's what happened with neurology. You know I'm getting to see a Genesis neurologist. He's ordering a bunch of stuff because there's some things on a previous MRI that was there that nobody bothered to fucking tell me about. So I've got some shit that else is being checked out.

Speaker 3: 1:35:40

So you have to be your own advocate.

Speaker 2: 1:35:42

I get community care at all the time.

Speaker 3: 1:35:43

Right. So there's, there's different avenues to go down. Now, if all that, at the end of the day, everybody is fucking you, then maybe it's you, I mean goddamn, utilize your patient portal.

Speaker 2: 1:36:02

That's great, you know there's so many, it's got to use a VA to know what that is.

Speaker 3: 1:36:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:36:09

I mean, yeah. So I just I don't know. I just I think there's so many ways that the VA is a bureaucratic system I get it But there are so many ways that they have tried to make things better for the veterans that are in the VA medical system. Yeah, it's not perfect, but they're they. They're trying and that's all you can ask them to do is fucking try.

Speaker 2: 1:36:37

Oh, i want to back up on one thing Go ahead. So if you are service connected for some stuff, when you get your original rating, maybe check in with your service officer, because sometimes you'll have a five year follow up exam. Right, not always, sometimes it'd be who's the veteran to maybe just go to a VA doctor appointment once a year to get seen, because a lot of times they don't, and they go to that five year follow up exam and they get a proposal to reduce them.

Speaker 3: 1:37:13

Well, because if and the reason being, we're paying you because this in this injury is impacting your life, so we're paying you, that's as you explained before, but you are not taking an active role on progressing this ailment, to get it better.

Speaker 2: 1:37:41

Correct no treatment.

Speaker 3: 1:37:42

Right, no treatment plan. Now, there might not be a treatment plan, right, i mean it might be hey, you need surgery. I don't want surgery right now. Okay, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:37:57

But When you come back in a year, maybe there's a new experimental treatment plan.

Speaker 2: 1:38:01

Right, i mean, and you can go to a civilian doctor and be treated for that as well. Just have those records transferred to the VA Right. But I'm just saying it'd be whose At least go once a year.

Speaker 1: 1:38:14

Because if it's not on paper, it didn't happen.

Speaker 3: 1:38:17

And. But if you're not being treated for it, the assumption is You're better, It's better Correct.

Speaker 1: 1:38:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:38:24

Or it's not impacting your life.

Speaker 1: 1:38:25

enough Right.

Speaker 2: 1:38:26

And that's. I've seen it several times They, they do a proposal to reduce. Hopefully they never got reduced, but they did a proposal.

Speaker 3: 1:38:34

Yeah, and for that you know veterans veterans get angry because they want to take their money away for those, and then just For those that are 100% and you're, you know, if you're permanent and total and you're not working after six months, go out and file for social security, ssdi, and there's, there's plenty of. And if you're a young man like myself, you're going to get denied. You know, the first time guaranteed. Second time probably, third time even maybe. But there's, you know, there's organizations out there that can help you with that, help you file claims, help you with the appeal process, and you know. So there's, there's things out there. And then you know there's a lot more avenues.

Speaker 3: 1:39:35

Once you are 100%, there's there's other things that open up for you. So you know you got to find. Get online I mean, everybody has it at our fingertips Get online and find out in your state what benefits you have at being 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100%. There's different, different, you know. It might be license plates, it might be free hunting and fishing license. It, you know national parks, national parks, things, things of that nature.

Speaker 3: 1:40:15

And you know Ohio has the the war orphan scholarship for severely wounded and deceased veterans. So you know there's things out there you can take advantage of and ignorance is not an excuse because you know you type in what. what does a veteran with 70% disability rating get in Oklahoma? It'll come up. You might have to click a few things and read, read some stuff, but it's out there And that's how you take a proactive approach in your health and your life. You got anything else, or I mean, we can put a bow on this.

Speaker 1: 1:41:08

Well, real quick, I'll put it in. We'll put it in the show notes, 38 CFR, Subpart B. Subpart B And then ModoRelieforg.

Speaker 2: 1:41:19

ModoRelieforg.

Speaker 1: 1:41:22

Yeah, cause I'll put that in the show notes. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Yeah, i haven't. I haven't been on their website, but the the the way that you share the positive impact that that's had on you, that's definitely something that people should take a look at.

Speaker 3: 1:41:40

So if you like, if you like to ride motorcycles, you don't have to take your motorcycle out there.

Speaker 2: 1:41:46

Nope, they provide the motorcycle, they provide the gear. If you don't have any gear, the only cost to the veteran is getting there.

Speaker 3: 1:41:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:41:56

I mean so, and it's for veterans and first responders.

Speaker 3: 1:42:02

So I mean, if you dreamed of riding riding you know, out in Colorado, here's a way you know what I mean. And again, it's, it's not just us saying um, how, how beneficial riding motorcycles is. This is a um, a whole organization built around um wind therapy.

Speaker 1: 1:42:29

And again, yeah, you know, in conjunction with workshop therapy, workshop therapies in the evening.

Speaker 3: 1:42:34

Yeah, i mean so. I mean it's, it's a small, small sacrifice and, uh, you know, john, John has spoke very highly of this organization since 18, when he got back from it And again it it impacted him so much He changed completely, changed his riding lifestyle, um, and, and now he's bougie on a BMW.

Speaker 1: 1:43:01

Looking down on us Harley Pions Right.

Speaker 3: 1:43:04

You know? I mean I don't know how many uh um full sleeve tatted uh huge bearded guys that are in the uh BMW community.

Speaker 1: 1:43:15

I know one, i know fucking one of them, but uh, he is not your typical khakis in a button up polo shirt with a fucking little alligator on it kind of guy, but uh yeah, it's, it's, um, it's still, you know, it's, it's still a uh, uh cool sight, um, but uh, yeah, um, what you got.

Speaker 3: 1:43:38

That's it man, i guess we'll. we'll say it loud for all the people in the back If you let it be a hundred percent, be a hundred percent And we're up, okay.